WTB 17" Sager, critical questions on NP57xx series.

[Elecman]

Been reading everything for 2 weeks, just signed up tonite to ask this:


My sinopsis: The laptop I want will replace a home-built P6600 2.4GHz Core2Duo with an Nvidia 8800GTS. It runs Vista 32-bit and have the HDD divided up as 200GB Vista, 100GB Kubuntu Linux. I plan to replicate this config with the laptop as I much prefer to live within Linux for day-to-day computing. I want a laptop as I could be taking classes in the future, and want a portable PC that is about as capable as my existing desktop. Having said that, onto the question template:

General Questions

1) What is your budget? $2000 if I let myself, but realistically I really can't justify more than $1500. It has traditionally been a magic number I follow for all the boxes I've built and due to the crappy economy its hard to justify more.

2) Notebook size: 17" only. It will be a desktop replacement.

3) Country Flag: USA

4) Are there any brands that you prefer or any you really don't like? I really like the offerings from Clevo.

5) What tasks will you be performing with the notebook? In Vista, Gaming, streaming video via Netflix services. Via Kubuntu, running OpenOffice, webbrowsing using Firefox, and KDE applications.

6) Will you be taking the notebook with you to different places or leaving it on your desk? I may attend a LAN party at least 1-3 times a year. I may take classes soon and unclear if it will be online or not. Either case, I'm on a computer almost all the time.

7) Will you be playing games on it; if so, which games? Far Cry 2, Source games, Bioshock, Diablo 3, STALKER and its new sequel, anything from ID Software, and any other FPS game that is cool enough. Well except for Crysis... not a fan.

8) How many hours of battery life do you need? I accept the statutory 2 hour battery life evident from the models presented.

9) Do you mind buying online without seeing the notebook in person? Yes considering offerings in B&M stores are laughable at best. I considered Gateway P-68xx-FX series as I am inherently a cheap sonofagun but that's not gonna happen. And I loath Best Buy and Circuit City anyway.

10) What OS do you prefer? Windows (XP or Vista), Mac OS, Linux, etc. Linux without a doubt. I've been a Kubuntu user for a year now after being totally disenchanted with Vista. But... I love Windows games, and if I am to buy a laptop with a 9000 series videocard, why run XP? So as much as I hate to do it, and I really do... I am gonna have to buy another Vista licence. Yeck.

Screen Specifics

11) Would you prefer standard or widescreen? This is still a question? Widescreen of course.

12) From the choices below, what screen resolutions would you prefer?
At least 100dpi. So a 17" monitor running 1680x1050 is probably overkill at 117 dpi. I honestly can't understand why 1900x1200 comes in 17". That's 133dpi and kind of a waste for a gaming system that requires speed at native.
13) Do you want a glossy/reflective screen or a matte/non glossy screen? Matte but it would seem evident that I don't have a choice if I want options. So it will have to be glossy. I hope outdoor readability will be decent with these Sagers.

Build Quality and Design

14) Are the notebook's looks and stylishness important to you? I prefer a minimalistic approach. But... I have to admit the notebook decals that Xotic has are very alluring.

15) When are you buying this laptop and how long do you want this laptop to last? I tend to spin ownership technology in a year or less but if I can get 3 years out of it I'll be stoked.

Notebook Components

16) How much hard drive space do you want? 200GB minimum.

17) Do you need an optical drive? Of course. I could care less about Blu-Ray so a standard combo drive is fine.

Why I am writing all this(aka my conundrum):
Firstly: Why does the NP5793, a gaming laptop with a 800 MHz FSB have 667MHz RAM and a Blu-Ray drive that commands a $165 premium over a combo? If Sager's distribution channel wants to move these NP5793 units, shouldn't they put in 800MHz RAM that pairs well with its FSB and offer combo drives instead for $100 less? A Blu-Ray compliant unit without HDMI doesn't make logical sense. But business sense may find it logical. Its too bad though.

All things considered, the NP5793 still appears to be my favorite setup.
Questions of the NP5793:
1.) I missed the opportunity to get the 2.4GHz CPU. Should I be cheap and get the 2.1GHz with 3GB L2 or can I be justified to pay an extra $165 and get the 2.5GHz CPU with 6GB L2 cache? Which is best paired with the rest of the NP5793's components? Again I game alot, but do a bit of zipping, MP3 encoding, etc.
2.) Do you Linux users have good luck with the NP5793?
3.) Within any OS, how well does this laptop behave with sleep modes?
4.) Is the card reader SDHC compliant?

Secondly: Its too bad Xotic does not offer the NP5796 with a 9800GT/GTS like 5 other competitors I have found recently. Knowing that a GTX commands extreme profit to the benefit of nVidia, I refuse to pay a $450 premium but am willing to get a 9800GT (which commands only a $100 premium on average). This would
1.) Will Xotic ever offer the NP5796 with a 9800GT/GTS? I could never let myself (however much I want to) pay > $2000 for a PC/laptop.

Based on all my critical mumbo jumbo, is the NP5796 worth an extra $400-$600? I've read multiple reports that 1066FSB does not afford anything extra. But even with jeeze the NP5793's slower bus and even slower RAM, it has a much larger HDD and even an arguably useless Blu-Ray drive; it would seem silly to buy NP5796. Again maybe there is a genius I don't understand.

Kudos to those who have read all this. You are all likely more wise and experienced with these high quality laptops so I'm using a lifeline; ask the audience. What sayest thou? I want to buy a laptop within a week and if the NP5793's sell out I may not buy for a while. But I really want to give Xotic the business. I like the community here.

Thanks in advance!
Best regards,
Elecman

[PSRT]

Greetings, my friend. I'm sure you'll find half a dozen people eager to help you out here.

First, I'll try to answer a few of your questions. Regarding the NP5793, I just recently ordered one myself, and I couldn't really understand the inclusion of a Blu-Ray drive either. I'm thinking it is Xotic or Sager attempting to sell through their stock of BD drives in anticipation for a newer model. That being said, it is my opinion that, even with the 2.1GHz CPU, that machine is well worth the money and a veritable bargain considering its price only a couple of months ago. Unfortunately, the 9800M GTs were just recently discontinued on the NP5796, so that option is out. In all honesty, you'll be hard-pressed to find a 17" gaming laptop at as reasonable a price as the 5793, and if you can spare the $175, I would definitely upgrade to the 2.5GHz chip.

Just my two cents though. I'm sure Anewbus will come up with some long-winded, insightful post some time tomorrow. Wait for that before you make any decisions based solely on this.

[Anewbus]

Hi Elecman,

Well, seeing as how you have done your homework (always a good thing) and seeing that you are set on the offerings from clevo (very nice) and the real kicker is your budget for a 17 inch. However, I’m like you and it took me 3 months to take the plunge for my first lappy and I must have talked to the folks at XoticPC at least a dozen times with lots of questions. :-/
I was on a $1500 budget but didn’t mind getting a 15.4 inch as I can always hook it up to a 19 inch monitor or something. (In my case, my lappy will be a multimedia source hooked up to my 40 inch TV).:D
Anyway, on to your conundrum.
Here’s a couple of configs I came up with for the machine your interested in:

This first one stays within the $1500 range. Notice it is just the standard config without an OS:


Sager NP5793 Custom Sager Notebook (Built on Clevo M570RU-U / M571RU-U) (http://www.xoticpc.com/product_info.php?products_id=2276%7b76%7d1883%7b18 7%7d1757%7b94%7d1074%7b92%7d2296%7b88%7d2417%7b186 %7d734%7b93%7d1931%7b193%7d657%7b112%7d2032%7b98%7 d2494%7b96%7d2434%7b168%7d1453%7b116%7d1416%7b117% 7d705%7b120%7d703%7b110%7d1748%7b169%7d1449%7b119% 7d1678%7b100%7d734%7b164%7d1441%7b107%7d689%7b106% 7d1696%7b121%7d694%7b108%7d710%7b109%7d711%7b170%7 d1591%7b173%7d1175%7b167%7d1452%7b103%7d686%7b113% 7d1413%7b111%7d1414%7b69%7d714)
- 17" WSXGA+ "Glare Type" Super Clear Ultra Bright Glossy Screen (1680x1050)
- Arctic Silver 5 Thermal Compound
- Standard Dead Pixel Policy
- ~Intel® T8100 45nm "Penryn" Core™2 Duo 2.1GHz w/3MB L2 On-die cache - 800MHz FSB
- 512MB PCI-Express nVidia GeForce 9800M GTS DDR3 DX10 (User Upgradeable)
- ~ 4,096MB DDR2 667 PC2 5300 (2 SODIMMS) Dual Channel Memory (Requires Vista 64-Bit to recognize Full 4GB)
- NP579x Orange Frame Trim Color
- ~ 2X Blue-Ray Read/8X DVDRW Super Multi Combo Drive
- ~ 320GB 7200RPM (Serial-ATA II 300 - 16MB Cache)
- Internal 7-in-1 Card Reader (MS/MS Pro/MS Duo/MS Pro Duo/SD/Mini-SD/MMC/RS)
- Internal Bluetooth 2.0+ EDR
- Built-in Intel® PRO/Wireless 5100 802.11 a/g/n
- Built in 1.3Megapixel Camera
- Sound Blaster Compatible 3D Audio - Included
- Basic Black Business Case - Included
- Smart Li-ion Battery (8-Cell)
- Integrated Fingerprint Reader
- None Standard - Drivers & Utility Software Only
- 3 Year Labor* 1 Year Parts Warranty Lifetime 24/7 DOMESTIC Based Toll Free Telephone Tech Support
(Labor Warranty through Xotic PC)

TOTAL = $1359.00 with cash discount (shipping and tax not included)

Now, in looking at this I’ll address some things I see that I feel I should point out.
First, the 2.1GHz CPU will do just fine. Getting the 2.4 chip is just not worth it within budget as the gain is only slight. (The real power in performance rest mostly on memory and GPU with the remaining going to the Proc and the HD). I have the same proc on my Force3298 with only 2GB of mem, and 8600GT 512MB GPU and running XP. Yet, I can play MOH, COD and tons of other games at very nearly full whack! I can only imagine what the 9800GTS can do, so you should be fine. Plus that GPU is upgradeable.
Now I also noticed some things that may be a little wasteful for the buck.
1) Does Kubuntu utilize 4GB of ram? If so, then it’s not a waste. If it does not though then having 4GB of RAM is a waste without having an OS that can utilize it like Vista. I’m no fan of Vista myself and won’t even try it (actually I had a taste of it at work and inside of a half hour went back to XP). That being said though if Kubuntu does not use 4GB I would consider having Vista put on as it may be a little bit cheaper through XoticPC than getting another license yourself. (I have not checked that though, so don’t take it as gospel). You also mentioned that you like playing Windows games so it almost becomes a forced issue.
2) I agree the BlueRay is a waste but sadly it can not be changed.:(
3). Believe it or not the HD at 7200 rpm is a tiny bit less efficient than the 5400rpm HD when it comes to battery life. While sizes such as 320GB and above are efficient in design concerning file access speed a same size or higher 5400rpm drive is just as efficient and uses less battery power and produces slightly less heat although the amount of that heat is fractional.
4)The warranty it comes with is good, but I feel it may be worth it for you to upgrade that judging by your statements.:)


All that said, let me make another suggestion. If you can see your way to up your budget a tad here is a config I would recommend:


Sager NP5793 Custom Sager Notebook (Built on Clevo M570RU-U / M571RU-U) (http://www.xoticpc.com/product_info.php?products_id=2276%7b76%7d1883%7b18 7%7d1757%7b94%7d1074%7b92%7d2296%7b88%7d2417%7b186 %7d734%7b93%7d1931%7b193%7d657%7b112%7d2032%7b98%7 d2494%7b96%7d2481%7b168%7d1453%7b116%7d1416%7b117% 7d705%7b120%7d703%7b110%7d1748%7b169%7d1449%7b119% 7d1678%7b100%7d734%7b164%7d1441%7b107%7d689%7b106% 7d1696%7b121%7d694%7b108%7d710%7b109%7d711%7b170%7 d1591%7b173%7d1175%7b167%7d1452%7b103%7d1889%7b113 %7d1413%7b111%7d1414%7b69%7d1467)
- 17" WSXGA+ "Glare Type" Super Clear Ultra Bright Glossy Screen (1680x1050)
- Arctic Silver 5 Thermal Compound
- Standard Dead Pixel Policy
- ~Intel® T8100 45nm "Penryn" Core™2 Duo 2.1GHz w/3MB L2 On-die cache - 800MHz FSB
- 512MB PCI-Express nVidia GeForce 9800M GTS DDR3 DX10 (User Upgradeable)
- ~ 4,096MB DDR2 667 PC2 5300 (2 SODIMMS) Dual Channel Memory (Requires Vista 64-Bit to recognize Full 4GB)
- NP579x Orange Frame Trim Color
- ~ 2X Blue-Ray Read/8X DVDRW Super Multi Combo Drive
- ~ 500GB 5400RPM (Serial-ATA II 300 - 8MB Cache)
- Internal 7-in-1 Card Reader (MS/MS Pro/MS Duo/MS Pro Duo/SD/Mini-SD/MMC/RS)
- Internal Bluetooth 2.0+ EDR
- Built-in Intel® PRO/Wireless 5100 802.11 a/g/n
- Built in 1.3Megapixel Camera
- Sound Blaster Compatible 3D Audio - Included
- Basic Black Business Case - Included
- Smart Li-ion Battery (8-Cell)
- Integrated Fingerprint Reader
- ~Windows Vista Home Premium 64-Bit Installed (64&32-Bit CD Included) w/ Drivers & Utilities CD's
- 3 Year Parts & Labor Warranty 24/7 Tech Support

TOTAL = $1753.76 with cash discount (Shipping and Tax not included)

In this second config I changed the HD to the 50GB 5400rpm giving you more space and a little easier on the battery.
I also included Vista, but if you didn’t want to do that you can deduct $97.00
Lastly, I upgraded the warranty to the 3 year Parts and Labor and this comes with the toll free 24/7 domestic tech support and shipping both ways should service be required!
(Oh, you can choose between orange or silver trim at no cost, by the way).

Why would I upgrade the warranty?
You mentioned you wanted the laptop to last, well think of it this way. XoticPC has the best warranties in the industry and if they are willing to back a machine with 3 years Parts AND Labor with shipping both ways, that says something. With proper care for your lappy it should last you beyond those 3 years, try 4 or 5 or even more.:XPCS::notworthy

Now concerning budget:
Shipping is about $37 for standard.
Depending on where you live and how you want it shipped you can avoid having to pay the sales tax which is a sizable sum.
If you live in a place that charges sales tax you would normally have to pay it if you have it shipped straight to you from production as the machines are produced in CA I believe. So what you do is this: Have the lappy shipped first from production to XoticPC then they will ship it to you. It takes a few days longer to get your laptop, but its worth it: First, you save a ton of money avoiding the tax and second it gives XoticPC a chance to run rigorous tests to double check everything making sure it works right out of the box for you. Third, they pack well.:smile2:

By the way 1680x1050 is not overkill, especially for games and movies go without question. You’ll see what I mean when you see your display.

You have come to the right place for your lappy.:XPCS::notworthy

PS. Hey PSRT, I'm not sure, I think Elecman may have me beat by a word or two or maybe not.:laugh:

[robamb2002]

First off, welcome to the forums!

To answer a few of your questions: (my answers are based on 5792 experience which should translate pretty well to the 5793 as the only real difference was the mobo upgrade for the Penryn processors)

I'm pretty sure the 667 memory is due to a chipset limitation not just the FSB speed.

most of the GPU driver issues were resolved with the 5792 model in regards to sleep mode, so the 5793 should do great.

the card reader is sdhc compliant.(I use a 32GB Kingston SDHC to swap files to my EEE PC)

as for if the 5796 is worth it... not if you don't have the money to spend in the first place :) its all about perspective. if your budget is 1500 then no the 5796 isn't worth it... if your budget is 2500-3500 then yes it is. frankely the 5793 is on sale meaning it is already a great deal.. stick with it.

I think between the three of us we have answered this round of questions. if you have more feel free to shoot them out or give XoticPC sales a call. They would be able to give you a much straighter answer (Blu-Ray, Mem speed, etc) and are always willing to give prospective customers the time they need to make a well thought out decision.

Happy Lappy Hunting!

[Elecman]

Thanks to all who posted back. Sorry it took so long for me to acknowledge your replies though, I wanted to wait until I had something of worth to post. I just thought this was interesting.

In the past few days, I have been studying the benchmarks of the 9800m GTS/GT/GTX comparing them with the desktop GPU card equivalents. From what I have read, and as we all know, notebook GPUs take a hit of 20-33% or so.

I installed 3Dmark06 Basic on my Vista-32 desktop and after a few runs on default, my 8800GTS 320MB card scored a 3DMark of 8757. Notebookcheck reports 3DMark scores of:

Mobile GPUs per Notebookcheck.com:
9800m GTX 10045
9800m GT 9416
9800m GTS 9683

My desktop GPU:
8800 GTS 8757

I'm like, WHAT? How can this be? Is this right? In a way I was pleased by these numbers because if Notebookcheck.com is right, it makes getting a new laptop a bit more justifiable. Anyone here feel this makes any sense? Do these numbers appear optimistic?

The funniest thing that occured after this exercise was that for the past year and a half that I have had my desktop I NOW realize that I have been running my RAM in single channel mode all this time. This was my 5th system I've built and what a DOH! moment this was. It explains why my Windows Experience Index score for my RAM jumped from 4.7 to 5.3 between single and dual channel modes respectively.

[Woody]

If I may chime in here....

How long has the 5793 been out? I never noticed that model before and it wasn't an option several months ago when I ordered my 9262. With the 9800M GTS it's an amazing deal and with a large capacity 7200rpm drive and 4GB all standard! I'm not hopping in here to help sell this thing but if you are looking for a high end gaming notebook under $1500 this is the one! It blows away that Best Buy Gateway offering in features and quality.

Personally I can't see why having the faster FSB and newer chipset on the 5796 is worth all the extra money it costs. If you're worried about base perfomance you can spring the extra $175 on the 5793 for the faster chip. I'm pretty sure that the T9300 2.5GHz on the 5793 with 6MB L2 On-die cache on a 800MHz FSB will match or beat the performance of the P8400 2.26GHz with 3MB L2 cache on a 1066MHz FSB which is the base processor on the 5796. L2 cache and CPU speed is far more important for gaming performance than FSB and DDR3. With the same graphics card the 5793 with the P8400 would be the faster of the two I'm sure and when you add in the cost of upgrading the RAM and HD on the 5796 to match the base configuration of the 5793 the priced difference is significant.

There is a lot of bad information at Notebookcheck.com so don't take all the data there as 100%. They do a good job of correcting it but it's still not accurate. The 9800M GT is no longer an option so it's not really relevent but the 9800M GTS is not faster in most cases. It's got a faster clock but at higher resolutions and shader instensive games it will not beat the GT which has more shader processors. I benchmark about 10200 3DMark06 points with my 9800M GT in WIndows XP at default settings. The specs you listed above don't seem right. The GTX should score a good 15% faster than the GT. A recent review of the Gateway P-7811 FX which is equipped with a P8400 2.26 Ghz and 9800M GTS scored 8676 in 3DMark06 which seems more accurate. Don't get me wrong though it's still a good score and at WXGA resolutions will handle current games smoothly at high graphics settings. I just didn't want you looking at the scores at Notebookcheck and thinking these three cards were that closely matched.

Your 320GB 8800GTS desktop card is probably a close match but keep in mind it's using the older G80 core technology. Current G92 8800GTS desktop cards are very different and much faster.

I'm surprised swithing your RAM from single channel mode to dual channel mode had that much of a difference in your Windows Experience Index because with the Intel Core 2 Duo systems it has a very little real world performance impact.

[Elecman]

Ok so my daily check of xotic's np579x series laptops yielded the fact that they finally seem to be offering 9800m GTs with their np5796 systems. This changes everything.

Part of the reason of me dragging my feet on a purchase (and I've been obsessive about this as of late) is how much I disagree with the np5793's configuration of 667MHz memory and a blu-ray drive. I want the more efficient P-series processors and 1066MHz bus and glad I've held out for the option of getting the much cheaper 9800m GT (vs GTX)

So am I reading the website right? Is this the new batch of 9800m GTs we've been reading about?

I also noticed the granddaddy site; www.sagernotebook.com has comparably-equipped systems for $75 less. I realize xoticPC offers a better warranty and I'm sure better service but xotic's prices have always matched that of Sager, PCTorque, and others.

Is Justin still tweaking things? :cool:

[Woody]

Yes that seems to be new today. The 9800M GT seems to be back in the top three models. In addition to lowering the price of the 5796 it also means people can get into a reasonably priced 9262 like I did over the summer.

The 9800M GT is a good card and a nice compromise between the GTS and the GTX.

[Elecman]

... And it looks like the 9800m GT is now gone. Again. Bummer.

Yes that seems to be new today. The 9800M GT seems to be back in the top three models. In addition to lowering the price of the 5796 it also means people can get into a reasonably priced 9262 like I did over the summer.

The 9800M GT is a good card and a nice compromise between the GTS and the GTX.

[Woody]

Oh well, it must have been an error.

[Justin_W@XoticPC]

The 9800m GT was listed on our website for a brief time as there was very limited stock. The stock has since been depleted and has been removed from our website.

[Elecman]

After a very educational 1.5 months of research, price tracking, and benchmark analysis, AND weighing the pros/cons of 15.4" vs 17", AND learning that the np8660's price dropped $300 today was the nail in the proverbial coffin. I am so glad the patience I've learned over the years has paid off.

All told for $1591.77 shipped with cash discount.
My np8660's config is rather standard:
1680x1050 screen
2.4GHz 25W CPU
9800m GTS videocard
200GB 7200RPM HDD
DVD/CDRW drive

About my buying process these past 45 days:
I really wanted to give XoticPC the business somehow as they were the first vendor I started to really lay some trust in, but did not want to pay for the 9800m GTX in the np5796. My price limit was originally $1500 and through the excitement of all this research I almost let it stretch to $2000. I just couldn't justify the GTX card like others can. I probably deserve to have it... but whatever.

I've compared this GTX setup with the np5796 configured with the 9800m GT but as my inhibitions governed my primal drive for tech, I saw that configuration slip through my fingers with the obsoletion of the GT. I was seriously considering going to other vendors who claim they had the GT... but really felt gunshy with their spotty reseller rankings. Malibal was a second place finisher next to Xotic in terms of ranking but they only had a handful of reviews and costed 5% more.

Then I got to thinking about the 15.4" vs 17" equation. I read countless reviews, testimonials, and rants/raves from here @ XoticPC to NBR to Google. A 17" wouldn't necessarily require an external KVM but I'd be afraid of wearing out the keyboard. Guild Wars and other games would look awesome on a huge 17" laptop... but the weight/size/batt life issue come into play. I can't expect to take a 17" on a plane and use it too, can I? I can't expect to lug a 17" in a classroom much better either and not have any more room for anything else. I got to thinking that a 15.4" has about the same power as the np5796 (with the GT), I'm more likely to use ext KVM with my nice, non-glossy 19" 1440x900 monitor; should run games even better than the np8660's native res.

I'm not too concerned with this heating issue I've read about so often either. I'm an Electronics Engineer and work for a power conversion company. I plan on rigging up my own laptop cooler with some extra 12V muffin fans laying around and with a small power supply mod, still manage to power the fans with the 5V from the USB. As for these stickers people talk about... I'll analyze that too. Unless there is something wrong with the laptop it should be cool enough.

So thanks to those who assisted me here, and to those who wrote reviews. It helped alot.

[Elecman]

Received my NP8660 in much faster time than I expected. I had called XoticPC's sales dept asking about shipping. The guy whom I talked to was very professional and helpful. He listened to my concern that I had to have the laptop by Dec 6th. Fearing it was going to arrive days after due to the long, drawn-out process of the e-check system, it arrived Dec 3rd; plenty of time to get the notebook prepared for a LAN party on the 6th. I don't have to drag my desktop this time like I do every year, yay.

The 1680x1050 screen is beautiful and there is plenty of real estate to go around. I can't see why anyone would want or even need 1920x1200 on a 15.4" display. The clarity and DPI of this screen absolutely destroys my 19" 1440x900 Samsung Syncmaster 940BW. And the screen actually appears larger than I was expecting. At first I was going to use the NP8660 with external KVM most of the time, but knowing how nice the display is; I'm giving the 19" to the wife; and it be an upgrade for her too. This 15.4" is plenty big enough.

WEI: 5.3, 5.9, 5.9, 5.9, 5.6; better than my 8800GTS 2.4GHz desktop!

Tried Crysis demo last nite; a bit disappointed with the framerate although it recommended I run it on high settings. I'll try DX9 mode later.

f you go to www.nvidia.com the 9800GTS driver cannot be found. So did you know that if you used their video chipset finder tool, it will detect the NP8660 as an Alienware and advise to go there for a driver? Found that funny. Anyway I'm using the disc driver for now as sagernotebook.com's driver download is super slow.

I still haven't removed the plastic laminates from the notebook yet though; too afraid of scratching it. I may keep the plastic screen covering on AAMOF... makes a good screen protector.

Since I desire 32-bit Vista I ordered the 2GB option. So naturaly I had to re-install VIsta x86 and all the drivers. Everything went without a hitch.

I am wondering though, what is the c:\Program Files(x86) directory for? Haven't seen that on a vista install before. Can it be deleted?

One thing I do not like about this notebook; the keyboard's keys aren't very sensitive and I find myself trying to acclimate to the very fat keys that notebooks have and also how hard I must press them. Guess I'm spoiled on traditional narrow PC keyboard keys. The Asus eeePC 701's keys were easier to type on than the NP8660.