My ultimatum, doubts and confusion

[potent]

Hi lads,

I would like an opinion as I am becoming very, very confused...
I ordered a G71G-A2 from here in November but USPS lost it :P, they no longer provide this laptop so I expect that I will have to choose another one. Being in Hungary its a long way away...
But due to changes in my situation I am not sure what I would need anymore...
Changes in my job and home situation means that I will need to travel a lot more, planes, trains, etc. than I used to. So I am not sure what size laptop would suit me anymore...
I will also be starting my Msc at University from September so I think battery life would also become more important for me.
The laptop will be used for all sorts of things, such as photoshop, illustrator, office 2007, presentations, a good couple of games. I think for the purchase of this laptop I would like it to be primarily aimed at gaming because if my extended family and I can use this thing for gaming in 2 or 3 years then it can surely handle all the rest
The more I am looking, the more attractive the Sager NP 8660 is becoming for me.

I am filling in this guide for your advice.

General Questions

1) What is your budget?
Approx 2,000 USD. I can go a bit over or under

2) What size notebook would you prefer?c. Mainstream; 15" - 16" screen:confused::confused::confused::confused:
d. Desktop Replacement; 17"+ screen :confused::confused::confused::confused:
3) What country are you buying this in?
Hungary

4) Are there any brands that you prefer or any you really don't like?
I am leaning toward Asus and Sager (have only heard good things about Sager)
Lots of my friends here in Hungary have MSI and they dont really recommend its build quality.

5) What tasks will you be performing with the notebook?
Gaming, Photoshop, Presenting

6) Will you be taking the notebook with you to different places or leaving it on your desk?
It will need to be portable

7) Will you be playing games on it; if so, which games?
Bioshock, Crysis, L4D, Fallout 3, etc...

8) How many hours of battery life do you need?
I think about 2 hours, a bit more would be nice

9) Do you mind buying online without seeing the notebook in person?
I would prefer to see it in person but I can have the best of both worlds. As long as it isnt very flambuoyant like those Toshiba Qosmios, something subtle would be nice so I can take it to a meeting or to a lecture.

10) What OS do you prefer? (more details below)
-Windows Vista Home Premium 32-Bit or 64-Bit

Screen Specifics

11) From the choices below, what screen resolutions would you prefer? (more details below) e. WSXGA+ - 1680x1050; Wider viewing version of SXGA, good for movie viewing or spreadsheets.
f. WUXGA - 1920x1200; Wider viewing version of UXGA, good for movie viewing or spreadsheets.
12) Do you want a glossy/reflective screen or a matte/non glossy screen?
I hear good things about Glossy :P

Build Quality and Design

13) Are the notebook's looks and stylishness important to you?
I would like something stylish, subtle and discreet if at all possible

14) When are you buying this laptop and how long do you want this laptop to last?
ASAP, 3 years, possibly more :)

Notebook Components

15) How much hard drive space do you want; 80GB, 160GB, 250GB, 320GB, 500GB, 1TB, or 1.5TB?
I think 250/320 would be good, I have lots of external HDDs

16) Do you need an optical drive? If yes, a CDRW/DVD-ROM, CD/DVD Burner or Blu-Ray drive?
DVD Burner at least, I dont expect Blu-Ray to be popular for a long time and even then I think I would buy an external USB BluRay thing ;)

17) What speed CPU/Processor would you like? Dual core or Quad Core CPU?
Something that will let me play games at higher resolutions for a good 2 years
I will be very happy if you lads can give me some advice.

:notworthy:notworthy:notworthy

[Anewbus]

Hi Potent,
Since your in Hungary and all over the place I left the warranties as they were. However, you can talk to Justin about international warranties and such.
Seeing that you will be doing much traveling I would stick with the 15.4” screen size to save a couple of pounds on the weight.
Seeing as how you will be doing presentations presumably on overhead projection or some projection means with various equipment I would not recommend going any higher in resolution ability than 1680X1050 due to step down capabilities. With a native screen resolution of 1680X1050 you can step all the way down to 800X600 if you ever needed to match the abilities of a given projection system that could not attain higher resolutions. (The 1920x1200 screens can only step down to 1280x800). I think you’ll find the 1680X1050 more than plenty for anything from business apps to photo work to games.

Here’s a config idea for the Sager 8660 you are interested in:
Battery life is estimated at 1 to 2 hours which “may be” a bit less than you are looking for and it weighs in at about 7 pounds.
I bumped the CPU up to 2.66GHZ with a 6MB cache at 25 watts. (Plenty of power with less sacrifice of battery and less heat build up)
I also went with 4GB of RAM to provide more performance with Vista as it comes with both 32-bit and 64-bit versions. (The 32-bit will only recognize up to 3GB of RAM while the 64-bit version will recognize 4GB and more). So since you have the 64-bit available it made more sense to go with 4GB of RAM straight away.
I also chose the 320GB 7200RPM as it is only about $10 more than the 250GB. That means a bit less hassle with the external drives
Finally, since it comes both versions I chose the Vista Home Premium 64-bit installed.

Sager NP8660 (Built on Clevo M860TU) (http://www.xoticpc.com/product_info.php?products_id=2411%7B76%7D768%7B187 %7D1757%7B94%7D1074%7B92%7D2424%7B88%7D2417%7B186% 7D734%7B93%7D2431%7B193%7D657%7B112%7D656%7B98%7D1 295%7B96%7D2434%7B168%7D1453%7B116%7D1416%7B117%7D 705%7B120%7D703%7B110%7D2426%7B169%7D1449%7B119%7D 1898%7B100%7D734%7B164%7D1441%7B107%7D689%7B106%7D 1696%7B121%7D%20)
- 15.4" WSXGA+ "Glare Type" Super Clear Ultra Bright Glossy Screen (1680x1050)
- Arctic Silver 5 Thermal Compound
- Standard Dead Pixel Policy
- ~Intel® P9600 45nm "Montevina" Core™2 Duo 2.66GHz w/6MB L2 On-die cache - 1066MHz FSB 25 watt
- nVidia GeForce 9800M GTS 512MB PCI-Express DDR3 DX10 (User Upgradeable)
- ~ 4,096MB DDR3 1066MHz Dual Channel Memory (2 SODIMMS) (Requires Vista 64-Bit to recognize Full 4GB)
- Standard Finish
- ~Combo 8x8x6x4x Dual Layer DVD +/-R/RW 5x DVD-RAM 24x CD-R/RW Drive w/Softwares
- ~ 320GB 7200RPM (Serial-ATA II 300 - 16MB Cache)
- Internal 7-in-1 Card Reader (MS/MS Pro/MS Duo/MS Pro Duo/SD/Mini-SD/MMC/RS)
- Internal Bluetooth + EDR
- Built-in Intel® PRO/Wireless 5300 802.11 a/g/n Wi-Fi Link
- Built in 2.0 Megapixel Camera
- Sound Blaster Compatible 3D Audio - Included
- Basic Black Business Case - Included
- Smart Li-ion Battery (8-Cell)
- Integrated Fingerprint Reader
- ~Windows Vista Home Premium 64-Bit Installed (64&32-Bit CD Included) w/ Drivers & Utilities CD's
- 3 Year Labor* 1 Year Parts Warranty Lifetime 24/7 DOMESTIC Based Toll Free Telephone Tech Support
(Labor Warranty through Xotic PC)

TOTAL = $1711.08 with cash discount


Here’s another machine from the ASUS line you might want to look at. This one comes with a 2-Year GLOBAL warranty, which you can upgrade to a 3-year for $119 more if you want.
I added the Thermal compound because cooling is everything.
The default CPU is plenty powerful and has a 6MB cache.
The machine comes with 4GB of RAM so you may as well go for the Vista 64-bit operating system.
I upgraded the HD to the 320GB 7200rpm because the 500GB 5400rpm is pretty slow and since your going to be doing Photoshop and presentations and games and such that means rendering and rendering means speed and power.




ASUS N50VN - C2S (http://www.xoticpc.com/product_info.php?products_id=2527%7B161%7D1411%7B7 6%7D650%7B187%7D1757%7B94%7D1903%7B92%7D2451%7B88% 7D1993%7B186%7D734%7B93%7D1645%7B112%7D656%7B98%7D 1907%7B96%7D2461%7B168%7D1453%7B116%7D1416%7B117%7 D1915%7B120%7D703%7B110%7D1747%7B169%7D1449%7B119% 7D1898%7B100%7D734%7B164%7D1441%7B107%7D689%7B106% 7D1691%7B12%20)
- !! FREE !! UPS GROUND SHIPPING (Use Coupon Code FREESHIP in Checkout)
- 15.4" WSXGA+ "Glare Type" Super Clear Ultra Bright Glossy Screen (1680x1050) `
- Arctic Silver 5 Thermal Compound
- ASUS Zero Bright Dot (ZBD) Pixel Guarantee
- -Intel® T9400 45nm "Montevina" Core™2 Duo 2.53GHz w/6MB L2 On-die cache - 1066MHz FSB 35 watt - ASUS Default Processor
- nVidia GeForce 9650M GT 1,024MB PCI-Express DDR2 DX10
- ~ 4,096MB DDR2 800 (2 SODIMMS) Dual Channel Memory -
- Standard Finish
- - Combo Dual Layer SuperMulti 8X DVDRW Drive w/ Software
- - 320GB 7200RPM WD or Seagate (Serial-ATA II 3GB/s)
- Internal 8-in-1 Card Reader: MMC/SD/Mini-SD/XD/Memory Stick/MS Pro/MS Duo/MS Pro Duo
- Internal Bluetooth + EDR
- Built-in 802.11 Wireless A/B/G/N
- Built in 2.0 Megapixel Camera
- Sound Blaster Compatible 3D Audio - Included
- Basic Black Business Case - Included
- Smart Li-ion Battery (6-Cell)
- Integrated Fingerprint Reader
- Asus USB Optical Mouse
- -Windows Vista Home Premium 64-Bit w/ Drivers & Utilities CD's
- 2 Year ASUS GLOBAL Warranty, 24/7 Tech Support, 1 Year Accidental Damage Coverage & 2-Way Pre-Paid Overnight Shipping for System Warranty Repairs (N.A. Accidental Requires Registration w/ ASUS)

TOTAL = $1759.58 with cash discount

[potent]

Thanks for the replay Anewbus,
You make the Sager notebook look even more attractive for me, I had no idea about that presentation scaling actually... I never would have had a clue.
Before my first order, I was very inclined to get a Sager because of all the amazing praise they get, but I was turned off by the funny location of the PgUp, PgDn, Home and End buttons. Needing the fn key to access them like in the 9262 but it seems the 8660 doesnt have this :smile2:
Using an Asus I bought here in Hungary the warranty wasnt so ideal.... I had an issue with the palm rest and the paint coming off (next to the touch pad) and Asus redused to do anything about it even 3 months after the purchase and well within the 2 year warranty.
I went to an international firm who repair all sorts of laptops, who can also repair Sagers so warranty shouldnt be an issue. I have the opinion (from reading many forums) that Sager produce VERY high quality, stable and solid laptops, especially compared to other laptop brands.
Can you vouch for them personally?
:notworthy:notworthy


EDIT: Something just came into my head, I will also need a European adapter, where will I be able to get one of these for the Sager brick?
Many thanks again!

[robamb2002]

The Sager bricks are a two part cord. the cord to the laptop with the power inverter, and then the cord from the actual brick to the wall. this second cord can be exchanged for any power outlet type and are pretty cheap, probably $10-$15 USD. Contact XoticPC sales department when making your order and they should be able to acomidate you with no problems. :)

Good luck

[potent]

All things taken into consideration I thought I would make something like this:

http://www.xoticpc.com/images/imagecache/8660x1.jpg (http://www.xoticpc.com/product_info.php?products_id=2411%7B76%7D768%7B187 %7D1757%7B94%7D1074%7B92%7D2424%7B88%7D2417%7B186% 7D734%7B93%7D2431%7B193%7D2492%7B112%7D656%7B98%7D 2494%7B96%7D2434%7B168%7D1453%7B116%7D1416%7B117%7 D705%7B120%7D703%7B110%7D2426%7B169%7D1449%7B119%7 D1898%7B100%7D734%7B164%7D1441%7B107%7D689%7B106%7 D1696%7B121%7D694%7B108%7D710%7B109%7D711%7B170%7D 1591%7B173%7D1175%7B167%7D1452%7B103%7D1889%7B113% 7D1413%7B111%7D1414%7B69%7D714) Sager NP8660 (Built on Clevo M860TU) (http://www.xoticpc.com/product_info.php?products_id=2411%7B76%7D768%7B187 %7D1757%7B94%7D1074%7B92%7D2424%7B88%7D2417%7B186% 7D734%7B93%7D2431%7B193%7D2492%7B112%7D656%7B98%7D 2494%7B96%7D2434%7B168%7D1453%7B116%7D1416%7B117%7 D705%7B120%7D703%7B110%7D2426%7B169%7D1449%7B119%7 D1898%7B100%7D734%7B164%7D1441%7B107%7D689%7B106%7 D1696%7B121%7D694%7B108%7D710%7B109%7D711%7B170%7D 1591%7B173%7D1175%7B167%7D1452%7B103%7D1889%7B113% 7D1413%7B111%7D1414%7B69%7D714)
- 15.4" WSXGA+ "Glare Type" Super Clear Ultra Bright Glossy Screen (1680x1050)
- Arctic Silver 5 Thermal Compound
- Standard Dead Pixel Policy
- ~Intel® P9600 45nm "Montevina" Core™2 Duo 2.66GHz w/6MB L2 On-die cache - 1066MHz FSB 25 watt
- nVidia GeForce 9800M GTS 512MB PCI-Express DDR3 DX10 (User Upgradeable)
- None Standard
- ~ 4,096MB DDR3 1066MHz Dual Channel Memory (2 SODIMMS) (Requires Vista 64-Bit to recognize Full 4GB)
- 4GB Intel® Robson Turbo Memory II
- Standard Finish
- ~ 2X Blue-Ray Read/8X DVDRW Super Multi Combo Drive
- ~ 320GB 7200RPM (Serial-ATA II 300 - 16MB Cache)
- None Standard
- None Standard
- Internal 7-in-1 Card Reader (MS/MS Pro/MS Duo/MS Pro Duo/SD/Mini-SD/MMC/RS)
- Internal Bluetooth + EDR
- Built-in Intel® PRO/Wireless 5300 802.11 a/g/n Wi-Fi Link
- None Standard
- Built in 2.0 Megapixel Camera
- None Standard
- Sound Blaster Compatible 3D Audio - Included
- Basic Black Business Case - Included
- Smart Li-ion Battery (8-Cell)
- None Standard
- None Standard
- None Standard
- Integrated Fingerprint Reader
- None Standard
- None Standard
- ~Windows Vista Home Premium 64-Bit Installed (64&32-Bit CD Included) w/ Drivers & Utilities CD's
- None Standard
- None Standard
- 3 Year Labor* 1 Year Parts Warranty Lifetime 24/7 DOMESTIC Based Toll Free Telephone Tech Support
(Labor Warranty through Xotic PC)


Is there any reason why this wouldn't suit my needs?
I really like the simple and elegant look so I can take in for presentations and what ever other marketing needs I need, including more than enough photoshoping power I think and of course plenty of gaming power for the next 2/3 years
:)

[robamb2002]

Looks pretty good! I would nix the turbo memory though. Save the 75 dollars as it is still quite a flawed technology that has yet to live up to its specifications. :)

[Anewbus]

Your build looks good. The only thing I would question is the Robson Turbo memory. You can keep it if you like, but it's my opinion that it is a waste of money at $75 because all it really does is make the machine boot up a little faster. It doesn't really have much effect on other factors of performance such as rendering, framerate, program loads, etc. As a matter of fact, I have heard that it actually causes problems. Other than that, this build will suit your needs well.

As for personally vouching for Sager: I can, in a sense. I have a Force 3298 (see my sig below) and it is practically the same as a Sager. It's built on the same platform (Sagers are Clevos and Compals).
My lappy came standard with a 3-year full coverage to the rafters warranty, that says something about it right there. That shows confidence in the product.
I have had my lappy for about 5 months or so and it is solid as they come. It requires both hands to open the lid! Stable and tight all the way around ,hinges, ports, etc. No flimsy lids or shakey hinges or peeling paint or super fast wear of palm area and such. Take good care of it and it will last you well more than 2 years easy.

[potent]

Thanks, I am getting very excited about this Sager now.
I believe I have come to my sense and stick to the 15" as I will need to travel, study and present more.
I am thanking god that you told you told me about the projector scaling problem.
I am comfortable using my current 15" so that wont a problem :)
I have been reading Sager forums for days now and see literally very minimal issues, compared to a lot of other brands.
Now I just have to get UPS to handle the shipping instead of USPS who already lost it. So thats going to cost a lot more but I just want to get my hands on a laptop. USPS losing it has turned into a blessing in disguise!
believe it or not!

EDIT: I read that the Turbo Memory wont actually help performance, etc. but I did read that it can improve battery life by a little bit...
that 15 20 minutes could be valuable for me but I dont want to have any problems with the whole computer because of it, what do you think?

[Anewbus]

Thanks, I am getting very excited about this Sager now.
I believe I have come to my sense and stick to the 15" as I will need to travel, study and present more.
I am thanking god that you told you told me about the projector scaling problem.
I am comfortable using my current 15" so that wont a problem :)
I have been reading Sager forums for days now and see literally very minimal issues, compared to a lot of other brands.
Now I just have to get UPS to handle the shipping instead of USPS who already lost it. So thats going to cost a lot more but I just want to get my hands on a laptop. USPS losing it has turned into a blessing in disguise!
believe it or not!

EDIT: I read that the Turbo Memory wont actually help performance, etc. but I did read that it can improve battery life by a little bit...
that 15 20 minutes could be valuable for me but I dont want to have any problems with the whole computer because of it, what do you think?

Ah yes, everyone gets excited about getting a lappy from XoticPC:laugh:. All kidding aside, I think you will be very pleased provided you can get it into your hands for crying out loud. By using UPS you stand a much greater chance of actually receiving your machine.:p
As to the Turbo Memory 15 to 20 minutes of battery life on a "might give you" for $75 is a bad gamble. Is maybe 15 minutes of battery life really worth $75? Along with that I have read some comments that the Turbo Memory can cause problems with certain programs and drivers, especially in the 64-bit arena. Save some money and potential headaches, dump the Turbo Memory.

[potent]

Thanks for the advice everyone :smile2:
I am now confident that I will order the NP8660 without the Turbo Memory.
:notworthy:notworthy:notworthy:notworthy I am now worshiping you guys
Just gotta wait for the claim to go through now!!

PS. On a completely separate issue, my father has been working with computers for many many years. He was working with and on those machines where there was plenty of room to move around in.
So I though that for a christmas present I would like to buy him some VERY old ram, not to actually use but to maybe frame. If memory serves, there used to be 1MB RAM and even less.
Any ideas where I could get some?

EDIT:
Just thought how much more performance would the T9800 (2.93GHz) provide over the T9600 (2.66GHz) and would it be worth the buck do you think?
You guys will get sick of my questions soon, Im sure :P

[Anewbus]

Thanks for the advice everyone :smile2:
I am now confident that I will order the NP8660 without the Turbo Memory.
:notworthy:notworthy:notworthy:notworthy I am now worshiping you guys
Just gotta wait for the claim to go through now!!

PS. On a completely separate issue, my father has been working with computers for many many years. He was working with and on those machines where there was plenty of room to move around in.
So I though that for a christmas present I would like to buy him some VERY old ram, not to actually use but to maybe frame. If memory serves, there used to be 1MB RAM and even less.
Any ideas where I could get some?

EDIT:
Just thought how much more performance would the T9800 (2.93GHz) provide over the T9600 (2.66GHz) and would it be worth the buck do you think?
You guys will get sick of my questions soon, Im sure :P

Glad to have helped.:)

I don't know where you could get really old PC parts. There used to be 640K RAM that came on individual chips! (That's what my first PC had).

The T9800 would give a bit more power, but also more heat. Would the difference be noticable? yes, slightly. Would have any significant impact on overall performance? No. Max overall performance is only as strong as the weakest link. Bottomline in my opinion, the gain you would get by going with the T9800 would not really be worth the extra $200 in this case.

[Justin_W@XoticPC]

Just thought how much more performance would the T9800 (2.93GHz) provide over the T9600 (2.66GHz) and would it be worth the buck do you think?
You guys will get sick of my questions soon, Im sure :P

I agree with Anewbus. Another thing to point out, the T9800 is only a 32 bit processor while the P9600 is a 64 bit processor. :eek:

Reference:
Intel® Core™2 Duo Mobile Processor P9600 (http://processorfinder.intel.com/details.aspx?sSpec=SLGE6)
Intel® Core™2 Duo Mobile Processor T9800 (http://processorfinder.intel.com/details.aspx?sSpec=SLGES)


Update: Just received information back from Intel. They confirmed that their specs sheet for the T9800 CPU is incorrect. They stated that the T9800 CPU is indeed a 64 bit processor.

[potent]

I agree with Anewbus. Another thing to point out, the T9800 is only a 32 bit processor while the P9600 is a 64 bit processor. :eek:

Reference:
Intel® Core™2 Duo Mobile Processor P9600 (http://processorfinder.intel.com/details.aspx?sSpec=SLGE6)
Intel® Core™2 Duo Mobile Processor T9800 (http://processorfinder.intel.com/details.aspx?sSpec=SLGES)

That sounds a bit odd to me, I am not sure I am interpreting this correctly, does this mean that T9800 only works with 32bit OS and P9600 with 64bit OS?
From those links, the only difference I can see is the Thermal Design and Cash speed.
The Bus Core Ratio is blank on the T9800.

[Justin_W@XoticPC]

That sounds a bit odd to me, I am not sure I am interpreting this correctly, does this mean that T9800 only works with 32bit OS and P9600 with 64bit OS?
From those links, the only difference I can see is the Thermal Design and Cash speed.
The Bus Core Ratio is blank on the T9800.

The P9600 and T9800 CPU's will still function on a 32 or 64 bit operating system, it just won't take full advantage of certain features.

In the "supported features" section on Intel's website for the P9600 CPU it lists:

Intel® EM64T 1

The footnote to this is:

Intel® EM64T requires a computer system with a processor, chipset, BIOS, operating system, device drivers and applications enabled for Intel EM64T. Processor will not operate (including 32-bit operation) without an Intel EM64T-enabled BIOS. Performance will vary depending on your hardware and software configurations. See http://www.intel.com/info/em64t for more information including details on which processors support Intel® EM64T or consult with your system vendor for more information.

Update: Just received information back from Intel. They confirmed that their specs sheet for the T9800 CPU is incorrect. They stated that the T9800 CPU is indeed a 64 bit processor.

[Anewbus]

I agree with Anewbus. Another thing to point out, the T9800 is only a 32 bit processor while the P9600 is a 64 bit processor. :eek:

Reference:
Intel® Core™2 Duo Mobile Processor P9600 (http://processorfinder.intel.com/details.aspx?sSpec=SLGE6)
Intel® Core™2 Duo Mobile Processor T9800 (http://processorfinder.intel.com/details.aspx?sSpec=SLGES)

Thanks Justin, I didn't know that about the T9800 proc either!:eek: Good to know for future reference.:)

[potent]

The P9600 and T9800 CPU's will still function on a 32 or 64 bit operating system, it just won't take full advantage of certain features.

In the supported features section on the P9600 CPU it lists:

Intel® EM64T 1


The footnote to this is:

Intel® EM64T requires a computer system with a processor, chipset, BIOS, operating system, device drivers and applications enabled for Intel EM64T. Processor will not operate (including 32-bit operation) without an Intel EM64T-enabled BIOS. Performance will vary depending on your hardware and software configurations. See http://www.intel.com/info/em64t for more information including details on which processors support Intel® EM64T or consult with your system vendor for more information.

So the T9800 is a safer bet? I dont see disclaimer like that on the T9800. I am still pretty fuzzy about what those things actually mean :p
So does this mean that using P9600, you can use 4GB Ram and more where on the T9800 you cant use more than 3?

[Anewbus]

So the T9800 is a safer bet? I dont see disclaimer like that on the T9800. I am still pretty fuzzy about what those things actually mean :p
So does this mean that using P9600, you can use 4GB Ram and more where on the T9800 you cant use more than 3?

Gee, maybe that's why they call it "fuzzy logic", I've always wondered about that.:p
No, you can use 4GB with both procs I believe as long as your running a 64-bit OS. I could be wrong. It's really the operating system that will recognize the RAM or not. It just means that the circuitry in the T9800 can't use all the features of a 64-bit OS. It's like a set of features on say a modern HT receiver. Let's say the receiver has all these different sound settings (all kinds of surround sound and logic and even THX). Now, let's say that only some of the settings are available with certain speaker set ups and more with others. I'll use THX for example: Let's say you have a 5.1 speaker system and you want to use the THX settings, but the receiver's instructions say that those features are only availble if you have a 7.1 speaker system. The receiver will unlock say 75% of the features for sound settings that accomodate your 5.1 speaker set up, but if you had the 7.1 the receiver would unlock the other 25% which includes the THX processing as well.
Now apply that to the Procs we are talking about and that's what your looking at.

Did that help?:)

[Justin_W@XoticPC]

So the T9800 is a safer bet? I dont see disclaimer like that on the T9800. I am still pretty fuzzy about what those things actually mean :p
So does this mean that using P9600, you can use 4GB Ram and more where on the T9800 you cant use more than 3?

A 64 bit processor can process data faster than a 32 bit processor. A 64-bit processor is made with more advanced silicon processes, has more transistors, and faster speeds. Technically speaking the T9800 has a faster clock speed, but can't process data as quickly as the P9600 CPU. Beings the P9600 is a 64 bit CPU it would be more advantages to go with a 64 bit processor if using Vista 64 bit. A 64-bit processor is completely backwards compatible, meaning you can currently use it with 32-bit operating systems and software programs.

Reference an informative demo video from Intel here: http://developer.intel.com/technology/product/demos/i64/demo.htm

Here's another informative article (It's a little outdated, but the information is still pretty valid) http://www.softwaretipsandtricks.com/windowsxp/articles/581/1/The-difference-between-64-and-32-bit-processors

Edit: shucks, Anewbus beat me on replying! :p

Update: Just received information back from Intel. They confirmed that their specs sheet for the T9800 CPU is incorrect. They stated that the T9800 CPU is indeed a 64 bit processor.

[potent]

Okay, thanks lads.
Your help in this is invaluable for me. I really like that video :)
I thought I would splash out that extra 200 USD to "futureproof" my laptop but it turns out throwing money at that will be a waste.

I think that is all that help I will need for now. If something comes to mind, I will post again.

:notworthy:notworthy:XPCS::notworthy:notworthy

[Anewbus]

A 64 bit processor can process data faster than a 32 bit processor. A 64-bit processor is made with more advanced silicon processes, has more transistors, and faster speeds. Technically speaking the T9800 has a faster clock speed, but can't process data as quickly as the P9600 CPU. Beings the P9600 is a 64 bit CPU it would be more advantages to go with a 64 bit processor if using Vista 64 bit. A 64-bit processor is completely backwards compatible, meaning you can currently use it with 32-bit operating systems and software programs.

Reference an informative demo video from Intel here: http://developer.intel.com/technology/product/demos/i64/demo.htm

Here's another informative article (It's a little outdated, but the information is still pretty valid) http://www.softwaretipsandtricks.com/windowsxp/articles/581/1/The-difference-between-64-and-32-bit-processors

Edit: shucks, Anewbus beat me on replying! :p

:p Ok, so I pounced first with one of my silly metaphors, but you ran in with all the data and videos and sources and stuff that I would have taken months to find.
XoticPC:XPCS::notworthy
It's that lappy I have, she influences me.:p

[Anewbus]

Okay, thanks lads.
Your help in this is invaluable for me. I really like that video :)
I thought I would splash out that extra 200 USD to "futureproof" my laptop but it turns out throwing money at that will be a waste.

I think that is all that help I will need for now. If something comes to mind, I will post again.

:notworthy:notworthy:XPCS::notworthy:notworthy

Your lappy is already "futureproof" without the extra $200 USD proc.:D
:XPCS::notworthy

[powerpack]

There is some major misinformation on this thread. The T9800 and P9600 support the exact same features. The only difference between the two is clock speed and TDP that is it. Do not read an omission on an Intel web page as the final for what is and is not supported. On the T9800 just click the ink for the data sheet and it will become apparent that the P9600 and T9800 support the same features.

Justin this whole chipset thing has not been an issue (Intel) since they rushed Core 2 to the market in the Napa platform (945) which only had a 32-bit interface to address up to 4 GB of memory. So they sold a 64bit CPU on a chipset that could not support the benefits of. Many not happy.


But since Santa Rosa (965) and above have all had 64-bit interface to address over 4 GB of memory. That means Santa Rosa (965) and Montevina (45) both.

So pleas explain what I a missing.


A tip for anyone reading simplified Intel documentation. It is famous for being incomplete. Reading the actual technical documentation is notorious for being badly written. Even using English in such away as to contradict itself within the same document.


So to make simple. All core 2's are 64 bit! All Intel mobile chipsets after 945 (Napa) are 64bit (965 Santa Rosa and 45 Montevina). Any info said prior to this is incorrect. Oh and other than maybe a netbook Xotic does not sell 945 anymore. Furthermore Core 2 compatible with 965 and 45 will not physically fit in a 945. Socket P vs M.


I am not saying the T9800 is the way to go but at least get the correct info. The power savings are minimal in normal use. It only is noticeable when stressed. At idle power draw is almost equal.


Good luck. :)

[powerpack]

Edit: 32 bit CPU's Cannot run 64bit OS? Ever? Read previous posts says they can? So that is another mistake? :p;):)

Why don't we get back on base?:)

[Anewbus]

Edit: 32 bit CPU's Cannot run 64bit OS? Ever? Read previous posts says they can? So that is another mistake? :p;):)

Why don't we get back on base?:)

:eek: A little on the raw side there Powerpack, don't ya think? I think your point is understood though.

However, to get back on base as you said, Potent was asking about power, future-proofing and significant advantages regarding the two procs. At least that's the way I saw it and so my original focus was that which is why I felt in my opinion that it was not worth the extra $200 for what you get in this case. (Every situation is different).
When we went down to the micro-component level is when things got muddy as they always do down there. Not that there is anything wrong with that at all, it just gets trickier, it's the nature of the beast if you will. It's like mathimatics: One is fine with the basics including fractions and such and basic Algebra and Geometry, even some engineering based problems, but then they throw even a single Quadradic equation at you and your an instant pile of mush.
I have to agree with you Powerpack though at least on two points. 1) Blindly trusting what a manufacture says or doesn't say. That's a tough one because on one hand, most of us are at their mercy so to speak. On the other hand, there is no rule that says anybody can't grill them about things and get at the absolute truth. (I've done a lot of digging like that myself concerning audio and video gear, etc).
Point #2) The hard fast rule in the computer world appears to be "backward compatibilty". There is no "forward compatibility". We "may have" lost some sight of that somewhere in this thread. Simple math small number goes into large number, not the other way round. At least that's the way I tend to see it.
I could be wrong.

Now for Potent's benefit: Potent, what was said about the two CPUs as far as your concerns of future-proofing and significant advantages being worth the extra $200 remains the same. The advantages and what have you are very small and not really worth spending the extra $200, at least as far as your needs are concerned, especially if Powerpack is spot on regarding clock speed and TDP. Remember, several major components work together to make a system perform and a system is only as strong as it's weakest link. You would be better off upgrading the video card and perhaps adding more RAM in the future (provided the motherboard supports more RAM) first, before upgrading the CPU. If you ever want to upgrade the CPU in future for some reason, I would do that last if anything, but I doubt you would ever really need to upgrade the CPU.
So for now, you need not concern yourself with that. Your final config as it stands is good.:)
That's just my opinion anyway.

[Justin_W@XoticPC]

There is some major misinformation on this thread. The T9800 and P9600 support the exact same features. The only difference between the two is clock speed and TDP that is it. Do not read an omission on an Intel web page as the final for what is and is not supported. On the T9800 just click the ink for the data sheet and it will become apparent that the P9600 and T9800 support the same features.

Justin this whole chipset thing has not been an issue (Intel) since they rushed Core 2 to the market in the Napa platform (945) which only had a 32-bit interface to address up to 4 GB of memory. So they sold a 64bit CPU on a chipset that could not support the benefits of. Many not happy.


But since Santa Rosa (965) and above have all had 64-bit interface to address over 4 GB of memory. That means Santa Rosa (965) and Montevina (45) both.

So pleas explain what I a missing.


A tip for anyone reading simplified Intel documentation. It is famous for being incomplete. Reading the actual technical documentation is notorious for being badly written. Even using English in such away as to contradict itself within the same document.


So to make simple. All core 2's are 64 bit! All Intel mobile chipsets after 945 (Napa) are 64bit (965 Santa Rosa and 45 Montevina). Any info said prior to this is incorrect. Oh and other than maybe a netbook Xotic does not sell 945 anymore. Furthermore Core 2 compatible with 965 and 45 will not physically fit in a 945. Socket P vs M.


I am not saying the T9800 is the way to go but at least get the correct info. The power savings are minimal in normal use. It only is noticeable when stressed. At idle power draw is almost equal.


Good luck. :)





I respectfully must disagree for now, but I am willing to be proved wrong.

Reference two different pages below from Intel's website where they state the T9800 does not have 64 bit architecture.

http://ark.intel.com/cpu.aspx?groupId=37005
http://processorfinder.intel.com/details.aspx?sSpec=SLGES

Now, beings I'm curious to find out if Intel's documentation is actually incorrect or not. I will contact our representative over at Intel to confirm whether this is an error on their website or if the T9800 only has 32 bit architecture.

I will let you know the outcome as soon as i have the information from Intel.

[Justin_W@XoticPC]

Update: Just received information back from Intel. They confirmed that their specs sheet for the T9800 CPU is incorrect. They stated that the T9800 CPU is indeed a 64 bit processor. My apologizes go out to powerpack :-/ Thank you for questioning the information on Intel's website :notworthy

[Anewbus]

Update: Just received information back from Intel. They confirmed that their specs sheet for the T9800 CPU is incorrect. They stated that the T9800 CPU is indeed a 64 bit processor. My apologizes go out to powerpack :-/ Thank you for questioning the information on Intel's website :notworthy

Wow, I'm glad he questioned it too! :)

[powerpack]

Hi guys if I was abrasive just a character flaw of mine. I just wanted to spit out information and my desire to be thorough may have overcome my ability to have courtesy and manners. Sorry guys. :-/

But my Intel comments if a little venom it was for Intel not you guys. Many an hour/day reading their documents and trying to figure out what they are trying to say? And I too have been the victim of incomplete info from them. :mad:

But on the important point I agree $200 does not make economic/performance sense. But bleeding edge never does. I would not spend the extra. :)

Sign you have no life? When you know Intel Core 2 socket M while 64Bit CPU is only supported on a 32bit chipset? And you know the CPU's and chipset/platform. :p

[Anewbus]

Hi guys if I was abrasive just a character flaw of mine. I just wanted to spit out information and my desire to be thorough may have overcome my ability to have courtesy and manners. Sorry guys. :-/

But my Intel comments if a little venom it was for Intel not you guys. Many an hour/day reading their documents and trying to figure out what they are trying to say? And I too have been the victim of incomplete info from them. :mad:

But on the important point I agree $200 does not make economic/performance sense. But bleeding edge never does. I would not spend the extra. :)

Sign you have no life? When you know Intel Core 2 socket M while 64Bit CPU is only supported on a 32bit chipset? And you know the CPU's and chipset/platform. :p

Hey Powerpack, thanks. I too know the frustration of trying to decipher unclear info. Sometimes it's hard cutting through all the extraneous noise to get to the core truth.:)

[potent]

Thanks for all the really great info. It has been a great help to me :smile2:
I feel a lot better having people with factual knowledge telling me what I should do with information instead of me just making "less than educated" guesses.
I really like that comment, only as strong as the weakest link, helps put everything into perspective for me. No point in making something seriously strong compared to the rest if another part is going to be the weakest point.

Lesson of the Day: NEVER trust intel :p

[potent]

Out of curiosity, will the different processors affect the battery life of the laptop?
Im contemplating still...

[robamb2002]

Out of curiosity, will the different processors affect the battery life of the laptop?
Im contemplating still...

the short answer is yes, a proccessor that is 35 Watts will drain the battery faster than a processor that draws 25 Watts. How much depends on the system and what other components are in the system. For a gross example: a system that runs off of 100 Watts may see a theoretical increase of about 10%. a system who runs off of say 500 Watts would see an increase of around 2%. different chipsets/GPUs/HDD will effect the battery life as well. so its hard to nail an exact value to increase in battery life. sorry :-/

I'm having flashbacks to 8th grade math.. "a train leave new york at 8am traveling 65MPH..."

[Anewbus]

The CPU your sticking with is 25 watt, so you chose wisely:)

Robamb - you'll be glad to know that train wrecked a while back and they never replaced it, so that's one less word problem we have to figure out now.:p:laugh:

[robamb2002]

that was my crazy train :p

[potent]

Well, I will try explain my thought line a bit ;)
I dont think the difference between them will be overly noticable given the current games of today but then I started to think of how quickly the requirements for games and everything else are rising.
Keeping that in mind, I dont want to have to upgrade unless its absolutely necessary, its my preference to have everything from the word go. But I wouldnt like to sacrifice 20 minutes of battery life (in the low power mode) because of it as this will defeat part of the point of this purchase.
I think I will make the final decision when I see the quote for the UPS shipping as that will be a pretty penny more and whether I can pay for that increased amount with my (international) credit card :p

Sager NP8660 (Built on Clevo M860TU) (http://www.xoticpc.com/product_info.php?products_id=2411%7B76%7D768%7B187 %7D1757%7B94%7D1074%7B92%7D2424%7B88%7D2417%7B186% 7D734%7B93%7D2431%7B193%7D657%7B112%7D656%7B98%7D2 494%7B96%7D2434%7B168%7D1453%7B116%7D1416%7B117%7D 705%7B120%7D703%7B110%7D2426%7B169%7D1449%7B119%7D 1898%7B100%7D734%7B164%7D1441%7B107%7D689%7B106%7D 1696%7B121%7D694%7B108%7D710%7B109%7D711%7B170%7D1 591%7B173%7D1175%7B167%7D1452%7B103%7D1889%7B113%7 D141)
- ~ 320GB 7200RPM (Serial-ATA II 300 - 16MB Cache)
- ~ 2X Blue-Ray Read/8X DVDRW Super Multi Combo Drive
- ~ 4,096MB DDR3 1066MHz Dual Channel Memory (2 SODIMMS) (Requires Vista 64-Bit to recognize Full 4GB)
- nVidia GeForce 9800M GTS 512MB PCI-Express DDR3 DX10 (User Upgradeable)
- 15.4" WSXGA+ "Glare Type" Super Clear Ultra Bright Glossy Screen (1680x1050)

~Intel® P9600 45nm "Montevina" Core™2 Duo 2.66GHz w/6MB L2 On-die cache - 1066MHz FSB 25 watt
OR

~Intel® T9800 45nm "Montevina" Core™2 Duo 2.93GHz w/6MB L2 On-die cache - 1066MHz FSB 35 watt

Anyway, robamb2
you fancy finishing that train question?

[powerpack]

potent that P9600 should over clock and undervolt nicely. Should have no problem with going above T9800 clocks. My T9400 Ive OC to 3Ghz 2.85Ghz with full stability orthos stress testing. I like the P9600 as with lower TDP I think you can safely OC better. The applications are free so you will save $200 and actually get better performance at the same clocks as your RAM will also be OC'd.

The 300Mz stability wall I hit I believe because of the RAM not CPU. I have generic RAM. Maybe a RAM upgrade would allow me to go higher So Maybe you could do even better.

[potent]

Hmmm, I was reading the Sager forums and am pretty sure I saw people saying that the CPU couldnt be overclocked on the Sager because of Bios limitations, which is why I was enquiring :P

Ahh well :)
I believe in you lads, I will save that money for the shipping which will make a big enough dent on its own...

[powerpack]

I don't think you can do with the BIOS. But setfsb I think will work. I don't have that model so could be wrong. My Asus does not allow BIOS OC either but setfsb works for me.

[potent]

Thats great news, many thanks :)
I still got a while to annoy you lads with questions me thinks, although I am running out of questions already ;)
I will keep them to this thread if they are relevant.
hopefully USPS will get off their arses soon :mad::mad::mad:

Im getting really eager...

[Anewbus]

As for gaming requirements rising - I don't think you have to worry much about the CPU. Pretty much anything 2.1GHz and above wiil handle anything you throw at it now and in future. The only thing you may need to pay attention to is whether or not the CPU is 64 bit.
Where the gaming "changes in requirements" really count most is in the OS, the GPU, the amount of RAM and the path (bus) that leads there.
That's my take on it anyway and I could be wrong.

As for Overclocking and messing about with that type of thing, I don't go there. I feel it's far too dangerous, especially on a lappy because one has no cooling options for one thing. You could end up blowing the lappy to smithereens.:eek: That's my personal feeling on that matter anyway. That said, there are some pro OCer's out there, but I'm also assuming they have tons of money to fix things or buy new systems when things go wrong.

[powerpack]

I found Anewbus' comments interesting and I just wanted to add not contradict but it might.

I think you are correct on what is most important. I too am of the opinion they are the most important not CPU in most games. Well last week saw someone who benchmarked same system with different CPU's at insane resolutions. By insane I mean way above WUXGA on external monitor. Some games made no difference others faster CPU had say 5 fps more?

So I agree with Anew's thoughts I share them, I am now at least considering at higher resolutions could have some impact. Not to the point that changes anything said previously. But all keep in mind?

OC'ing a notebook. I have been aware of Anew's thoughts on this. He does offer a sound opinion with the understanding of the critical issues. That said while his thoughts are safe and if an issue (heat) then yes he is correct to be concerned.

That said there are so many free temp monitoring applications that this is something that can be safely evaluated to determine the feasibility of doing. Example the OEM puts both 35w TDP and 25w TDP CPU's. So seems to me if you get 25w TDP CPU I think you have even more room to play.

So yes I have limited abilities to control heat vs desktop. Undervolting being the only real tool. I OC and my temps are not high. I doubt they make an HP that runs cooler than mine when mine is OC'd. I have incredibly low temps. I am typing this and on line with a few apps open and at 110F.

So if you OC just watch your temps. Also I don't OC 24/7. I OC if I want some extra power.

So I guess we have the pro and con opinions. I don't think there is a correct answer more of personal choice. Unless of course as Anew said heat issues.

No I am not rich I am just very careful. This Asus great temps my AMD before much less ability. All systems are different Intel's run cooler than AMD. Different notebooks have different thermal cooling capabilities. You must learn your systems to safely OC.

Good luck what ever you decide to do.

Heat is the enemy no ifs ands or buts.

[potent]

I realize that Overclocking isnt necessarily dangerous if you do it with reasonable temps but I was also under the impression that overclocking reduces the life span of those overclocked parts even if done safely.

Perhaps I am wrong though, Im not too keen on overclocking either which is why I was considering a better cpu in the first place :eek:

[Anewbus]

I realize that Overclocking isnt necessarily dangerous if you do it with reasonable temps but I was also under the impression that overclocking reduces the life span of those overclocked parts even if done safely.

Perhaps I am wrong though, Im not too keen on overclocking either which is why I was considering a better cpu in the first place :eek:

You bring up a very valid point Potent. While some of what I said about OCing is my own opinion and if some of my opinion happens to fall in-line with the facts, so be it, you make a good point about lifespan.
I have to agree that, yes, it will reduce the lifespan of the parts. Why? It's because low temps or not, you are stilling pushing the part beyond it's safety threshold. As to temps, even 5 degrees can make a difference over a long time. As we know, electronics produce heat, that's the law of physics. With heat comes degregation over time.
I'll go back to an audio example: Let's say you have a high current HT Receiver that runs hot. (Most do). Now let's say that you know it's normal temp threshold, we'll say 135 degrees, we'll also say it has an auto shutdown at 150 degrees. Let's say you have a way of checking the temprature of your receiver (some have a built in code you can access). Let's say it reads a constant 142 degrees after it's been on for an hour, perhaps due to the environment it is in, say it is not quite ventilated as it should be because it barely fits in your cabinet. Now let's assume that the receiver should last you about 15 years according to the manufacture, but it's assuming normal use with normal temprature of about 135 degrees. So now instead of lasting 15 years, you get up one day, let's say 11 years later and go to turn it on and you notice that it starts shutting down after 35 minutes of use and perhaps giving you other little problems. This is because the parts have been prematurely worn down due to the constant increased heat even though it was only 7 degrees above optimum and still 8 degrees under the danger zone. Time to replace the receiver for another $1000.
I know the time frame I gave in the example seems like a long time, but it's not. I used the time frame in accordance with the equipment I was using in the example. With computers it's much shorter. So if say your computer is supposed to last about 5 years and you OC then it could last 4 years or less for example. Then there is also the warranty to consider, you OC you void the warranty plain and simple.
As I said, there are folks out there that OC all the time, they are good at it, but can also afford the risk. As Powerpack said, it does come down to personal choice.

As I stated, the CPU you chose is plenty powerful and your gain from spending an extra $200 on the next one up is 5% at best when you consider the other parts in your system, so not really worth it, but ultimately it's up to you.

[powerpack]

Anew's time frame for heat is very good I am impressed. The rule of thumb I read in the past was 10F is about 5 years so sounds like we agree on numbers or at least close?

Only thing is CPU's last a lot longer than 5 years think more in the 20 year range. Clearly designed to out last the useful lifespan.

I understand OP has expressed no interest in OC'ing. Cool I think good choice. That said let us at least be honest. They have XCPU's made with the same materials as my T9400 but w/44w TDP vs 35w TDP so this is not witchcraft or rocket science. If you can control your temps you are fine. Some OEM not OC run hotter than mine OC'd. All AMD's do.

OC'ing with applications does not void your warranty. I mean if you beg them to void and repeatedly tell them how you OC'd maybe they will do you a favor and void it for you. There is no way for them to tell a software OC when inspecting hardware. I will further mention they sell notebooks with OC abilities. The XCPU's allow BIOS multiplier settings. Even some Asus are offering OC on non XCPU's.

I simply do not blindly follow. It is not better when the OEM does vs me as long as I know the principles involved. Why can Intel push the same silicone wafer to a higher TDP than me? Last I heard they are as I still governed by the same laws of nature?

Further info on CPU's. Intel does offer CPU's of different levels, both speed and level of L2 as a way to not waste that valuable silicone wafer. Yes some are rejects. But in almost all cases to meet demand and maintain higher market value for certain chips. They end up crippling there chips. So in the best example C2D become PDC that is fact. And it goes all the way up the food chain.

Anew I really do respect your opinion. And I think it is a valid argument. It clearly is the safest most cautious approach. My only issue is you ever so slightly cross the line of opinion to fact to support your opinion.

You could correctly state that cooler is always better regardless of what MFG says is normal operating temperature. In your Hi-Fi example running at 125F might give you 20 years not 15? Always using a cooler can add life. But you don't say that. It is a graduation not an absolute.

As I said my AMD TL-52 running orthos would go to 190F easy it even went to the critical 203F at times no OC. My T9400 OC'd running orthos never goes above 170F. I bet many others have OEM no OC that go higher? Why is that OK and mine is not?

Nvidia 8xxx and some 9xxx had a fatal flaw. Incompatible materials caused GPU failure related to heat. No OC involved. Yours is not on the list but trust me it is affected. I would not OC your system for that reason alone.

Anew thanks for the opportunity to share my opinions that differ from yours. I think it is better for all to hear different and make their own choice. And to make clear to all I agree with the foundation of Anew's concerns. I OC because I spend way too much time thinking about useless theoretical insignificant little things about systems. For 99% of users OC will be of little or no real world benefit with the potential of increased risk. But for that 1%? Hey be careful and follow the common sense that has been brought up here. As Anew said heat kills! :)

Slow Sunday Kid's!

[potent]

Thats great news :smile2:

I really like your explanations, if you can explain to me you lads should be writing those "for Dummies" books :D

Thanks so much lads, I would kiss but I dont know so, I will be sending you happy thoughts :laugh::laugh:

If you guys have any knowledge how to send a good (very large sized) boot up USPS's backside I will send more than happy thoughts :P

[Anewbus]

[quote=powerpack;11610]Anew's time frame for heat is very good I am impressed. The rule of thumb I read in the past was 10F is about 5 years so sounds like we agree on numbers or at least close?

Only thing is CPU's last a lot longer than 5 years think more in the 20 year range. Clearly designed to out last the useful lifespan.

I understand OP has expressed no interest in OC'ing. Cool I think good choice. That said let us at least be honest. They have XCPU's made with the same materials as my T9400 but w/44w TDP vs 35w TDP so this is not witchcraft or rocket science. If you can control your temps you are fine. Some OEM not OC run hotter than mine OC'd. All AMD's do.

OC'ing with applications does not void your warranty. I mean if you beg them to void and repeatedly tell them how you OC'd maybe they will do you a favor and void it for you. There is no way for them to tell a software OC when inspecting hardware. I will further mention they sell notebooks with OC abilities. The XCPU's allow BIOS multiplier settings. Even some Asus are offering OC on non XCPU's.



Anew I really do respect your opinion. And I think it is a valid argument. It clearly is the safest most cautious approach. My only issue is you ever so slightly cross the line of opinion to fact to support your opinion.

You could correctly state that cooler is always better regardless of what MFG says is normal operating temperature. In your Hi-Fi example running at 125F might give you 20 years not 15? Always using a cooler can add life. But you don't say that. It is a graduation not an absolute.



Anew thanks for the opportunity to share my opinions that differ from yours. I think it is better for all to hear different and make their own choice. And to make clear to all I agree with the foundation of Anew's concerns. I OC because I spend way too much time thinking about useless theoretical insignificant little things about systems. For 99% of users OC will be of little or no real world benefit with the potential of increased risk. But for that 1%? Hey be careful and follow the common sense that has been brought up here. As Anew said heat kills! :)


Software OCing? - Powerpack I was not aware there was any such application. I find that very interesting. It might even add a new spin to things.:) That's worth looking at. Perhaps not for myself as you are aware of how skiddish I am about OCing, but as an offer to others whom might want to venture into that area.
I also have to agree with you that if any said notebook or what have is designed for OCing, then it would obviously have the room for it built in so that reduces the worry as well as the degree of lifespan shortening as long as the envelope is not pushed to the breaking point I would imagine.

As for what I said, I did not cross the line as you say. I was merely giving a real world example or metephor if you will, to explain a scientific concept refering to the laws of physics regarding electronics + heat = effect on lifespan. I was not using exact numbers, just random pulled out of the air as aids. I'm sure the exact numbers are vastly different, but it would have taken me weeks to research everything down and copy all the tech manuals and such. I don't have that kind of time on my hands. (I'll tell you that I am glad you do because it really provides valuble info to everyone like that whole Intel CPU thing for example).;)
In no way was I trying to turn my opinion into fact. My opinions aren't worth the words or computing power it takes to type them. I just throw them on the table not concerned about whether or not anyone agrees because at the end of the day it doen't matter. Opinions are opinons and facts are facts. Often times opinions naturally relate to a fact or two. We would not have opinons without facts because without facts there is no basis. I also clearly state that it is my opinion and therefore leaves it all open to personal choice in the end.

I agree Powerpack, I was going to mention cooling rigs and such, but then I thought "you can't install a giant CPU cooling rig and such in a laptop" and I was kind of assuming intellectual credit for everyone thinking that cooling options would be thought of anyway. Perhaps I should have just gone ahead and mentioned that anyway as you pointed out. My bad.

That said, keep posting your two cents, different or not because all info and even opinions together make a tapestry of valuable info for everyone, not to mention we all learn from our different bits of info and opinions as well:).

[robamb2002]

Then I come in with the middle ground :p. As previously mentioned, my opinion on overclocking is as follows: Buy a machine that can handle what you intend to do on it! There are notebooks out there that can blow your mind. If no notebook can handle what you want, then overclock! I live my moto: I've got my NP5792 for general purpose gaming around the house and on trips. and I've got my OCed EEEpc for on the go (commute/lunch break/road trips) Using software OCing (setfsb) and upgraded memory, my EEEpc can run Lord of the Rings Online and Spore with "decent" results. I wanted small for traveling and powerful for all out gaming. using my moto, I've got both :)

Anewbus, the software "setfsb" works very nicely for software OCing and there are some really easy to follow tutorials online that are very easy to find with a simple google search. basically download it, set it up, stress test the machine and your good to go.

another rule I follow while OCing: dont play on an OCed machine for very long and watch the temp. take some breaks to let things cool down a bit

Well there is my middle ground :D

I'm not to worried about the longevity of my EEEpc because it was reletively cheap and the Ion platform netbooks should be out by christmas so I just need it to last that long.... Ion=Hello gaming netbook! !!!Justin!!! PLEASE let me know the instant you will have an Ion netbook in stock, I will buy the first one!!!

[Anewbus]

Then I come in with the middle ground :p. As previously mentioned, my opinion on overclocking is as follows: Buy a machine that can handle what you intend to do on it! There are notebooks out there that can blow your mind. If no notebook can handle what you want, then overclock! I live my moto: I've got my NP5792 for general purpose gaming around the house and on trips. and I've got my OCed EEEpc for on the go (commute/lunch break/road trips) Using software OCing (setfsb) and upgraded memory, my EEEpc can run Lord of the Rings Online and Spore with "decent" results. I wanted small for traveling and powerful for all out gaming. using my moto, I've got both :)

Anewbus, the software "setfsb" works very nicely for software OCing and there are some really easy to follow tutorials online that are very easy to find with a simple google search. basically download it, set it up, stress test the machine and your good to go.

another rule I follow while OCing: dont play on an OCed machine for very long and watch the temp. take some breaks to let things cool down a bit

Well there is my middle ground :D

I'm not to worried about the longevity of my EEEpc because it was reletively cheap and the Ion platform netbooks should be out by christmas so I just need it to last that long.... Ion=Hello gaming netbook! !!!Justin!!! PLEASE let me know the instant you will have an Ion netbook in stock, I will buy the first one!!!

Wouldn't stress testing the machine destroy it? I mean one needs to find the threshold and then once you find it, it's too late? If a machine is meant to be OCed then it would be relatively safe to do it on that I suppose.
Like I said though my personal take on OCing is if you can afford the expense and want to do it, then OC to your hearts content. For me personally, I steer clear only because I can't afford it, but that's just me. If I had all kinds of money I would probably play with software OCing and more.

You can OC an EEEpc and game on it?:eek: Relatively cheap? Those things are $400 to $700 depending on configuration - not relatively cheap to me anyway. I'm trying to save up for one because I want one for the kitchen and I just want to purchase from Xotic again.:XPCS::notworthy
Ion platform?...What? Good heavens! I'm still trying to get my head around "atomic procs" in the EEEpc machines, now we have Ion procs coming? What's that about? (I got good scores in my physics classes, but I struggle to figure this out. I studied Theoretical Physics).

[robamb2002]

The stress test will let you know if your system is stable at the higher clock speeds. If it locks up, then your too high :)

The Ion platform is sheduled to replace the 945GSE chipset for the Atom processors, It is designed by nvidia and has a 9400M G (3DMARK 05=3930) built in as opossed to the Intel GMA950 (3DMARK 05=455) of the 945GSE chipset. the upshot is HD video and gaming on a netbook with marginal increases in power requirements. test models have been handed out and reviewers are giving them rave reviews playing games like COD4 and Left for Dead with decent FPS.

Pair that with the rumored dual core Atoms and windows7, and you got a machine which can actually game PRIOR to mods :)

We should know alot more about these next week with CeBIT!!! I'm stoked at learning some of the specs for these and the D90xF

*drool*

[potent]

wouldnt such a machine eat a lot of power?
I thought the major point of a netbook was portability and battery life, otherwise why not just get a proper gaming asus(albeit small)?

[robamb2002]

wouldnt such a machine eat a lot of power?
I thought the major point of a netbook was portability and battery life, otherwise why not just get a proper gaming asus(albeit small)?

actually thats why they chose the 9400G, the power consumption isnt that much greater than that of the GMA950 (12watt vs 7watt)

so the performance boost is well worth the extra 5 watts

[robamb2002]

the ASUS N10 has a 9300 GS (13watt) and reviewers claim a real world decrease in battery time of 30-45 min. or 4.5hrs as opposed to 5 hrs compaired to running the GMA950 (the ASUS N10 has both GPUs)

[potent]

Argh
USPS is getting getting on my nerves...
Have you lads ever heard of somebody losing their package who has reported how long it took for USPS to reimburse the sender?
Im really getting anxious about this whole thing...

[Anewbus]

Argh
USPS is getting getting on my nerves...
Have you lads ever heard of somebody losing their package who has reported how long it took for USPS to reimburse the sender?
Im really getting anxious about this whole thing...

I have no idea of the process involving the USPS. I can tell you though that I live here in the states and I don't trust them with packages....or anything else for that matter. It's really even hit and miss here in the states. (I think the USPS is the only other job a high school drop out can get besides the presidency).
I've seen stuff get to me in one day from thousands of miles away and 7 or 8 days from nextdoor. Makes no sense.
I hope something happens for you soon though. Too bad you can't charge them with kidnaping your lappy as well.

[potent]

I had no idea they were so bad.
When I got the quote for shipping from Justin, USPS was like 225USD shipping and the UPS option was nearly 600USD.
I didnt imagine they would lose it, just that it would take a couple of weeks to deliver instead of just 1 from UPS.
It wasnt that much of a rush for me because I did it early and would only really need the lappy at the middle of Jan or so... so I thought 6-7 weeks delivery would be more than sufficient... even for USPS...
Ive learnt my lesson. I am gonna forkout that extra cash this time...

[Anewbus]

I had no idea they were so bad.
When I got the quote for shipping from Justin, USPS was like 225USD shipping and the UPS option was nearly 600USD.
I didnt imagine they would lose it, just that it would take a couple of weeks to deliver instead of just 1 from UPS.
It wasnt that much of a rush for me because I did it early and would only really need the lappy at the middle of Jan or so... so I thought 6-7 weeks delivery would be more than sufficient... even for USPS...
Ive learnt my lesson. I am gonna forkout that extra cash this time...

Yeah, I know it's a ludicris amount of money to have something shipped from the states to another country. 225USD for USPS is bad enough. However, with the USPS there is no tracking so it gets harder to prove things and get action. I'm sure you will get taken care of eventually. With UPS or the like at least you have a tracking number and your package is specific so it is not amongst millions of other things. You can also check status of delivery on line really easy. (It might be amongst thousands, but there's that tracking number again). I would also think it greatly reduces the opportunity for kidnapping because it's super tracable.

[potent]

Yeah, I know it's a ludicris amount of money to have something shipped from the states to another country. 225USD for USPS is bad enough. However, with the USPS there is no tracking so it gets harder to prove things and get action. I'm sure you will get taken care of eventually. With UPS or the like at least you have a tracking number and your package is specific so it is not amongst millions of other things. You can also check status of delivery on line really easy. (It might be amongst thousands, but there's that tracking number again). I would also think it greatly reduces the opportunity for kidnapping because it's super tracable.

Yah, thats what Im counting on ;) this time around im willing to fork out all that extra cash.
Considering that my previous order shipped on November 25 2008, I never would have imagined that three months later they havent sorted this out...
I am literally praying that this will be sorted next week... this is getting ridiculously nerve wrecking :(:(:(:(
right now I am making the sadest panda in the world look like someone enjoying himself...

[potent]

Hmmm!!!
Speculation time again lads, NP8660 put on back order till 20th of March from what I can see, is this the refresh that I have seen so many rumours about? GTX 260 etc??

Starting to think usps did me an even bigger favour than I originally thought in losing that lappy if this turns out to be true

[Anewbus]

Hmmm!!!
Speculation time again lads, NP8660 put on back order till 20th of March from what I can see, is this the refresh that I have seen so many rumours about? GTX 260 etc??

Starting to think usps did me an even bigger favour than I originally thought in losing that lappy if this turns out to be true

I think that GTX 260 is just on the NP5797, but I'm not sure.

Justin?

[Justin_W@XoticPC]

Hmmm!!!
Speculation time again lads, NP8660 put on back order till 20th of March from what I can see, is this the refresh that I have seen so many rumours about? GTX 260 etc??

Starting to think usps did me an even bigger favour than I originally thought in losing that lappy if this turns out to be true
The GTX 280m at this time is only offered on the Sager np5797 notebook. You will have to wait and see what becomes available on the 8660. Cross your fingers, hope for the best, and you may be loving USPS for losing your package in the end! ;)

[potent]

I am getting giddy!! But have a look at this rumour I found

http://www.clevo.com.tw/en/e-services/Download.asp

Check at the bottom of the drivers list

Look up the M86XTU model and look up VGA drivers and at the very bottom of the list is the new shiny GTX260 :D:D:D

Dont you love the rumour train!!!

PS. Did the 8660 just get cheaper??

[potent]

Just feeding the rumour mill!!

Saw a thread and it shows that Clevo has made a bios update for the NP8660 to support the GTX 260.

http://www.clevo.com.tw/en/e-service...o=GO&type=BIOS (http://www.clevo.com.tw/en/e-services/esupport/MarketDLOut.asp?model=M86xTU&go=GO&type=BIOS)

Normally I dont pay much attention to rumours but they have never really affected me or been relevant to me and these rumours are starting to sound credible. Got any opinions?

[potent]

I am at my wits end again :mad::mad::mad::mad: I just wanna cry :p
From this ever ongoing USPS investigation and now from the rumours of the 8660 update
This is mostly a rant but there are a few questions hidden in it somewhere:rolleyes:

If the 8660 doesnt get the new upgrade, I will consider the 5797 because I am keen on making this a long lasting upgrade. This is mostly a enquirey.

Looking at the Clevo laptops page here on XoticPC, it shows the 5797 has about the same battery life, is this true?? I didnt think it was possible but it seems so.
Other thing that I am curious about is the PgDn, PgUp, End and Home buttons. They look to me to be in an unusual place, needing the Fn key. Do people complain about this or do they get used to it somehow?
The 5797 is also 1/2 kg heavier so its not like a big weight difference. i think...

Also, I read that the Asus G50 laptop has similiar dimensions to a 17" despite being a 15", it this also the case with the 8660 and 5797?

I am still in love with the 8660 but i dont like purchases laptops very often and the 5797 will give a good few more months or even up to a year wouldnt it?

Also are there some screenshots of the 5797? (I mean showing the difference between orange and silver)

Many thanks again lads.
:notworthy:notworthy

[potent]

YYYEEEEESSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!
:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:: laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:
:smile2::smile2::smile2::smile2::smile2::smile2::s mile2::smile2::smile2::smile2::smile2:

Sager NP8662 (Built on Clevo M860TU)!!!!!!!!!



I am the happiest man in the world right now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

On a slightly less excited note, is there any kind of action I can take against USPS that can help me get this laptop when it is released? I am seriously starting to consider taking action against them... La Revaltion or something to that affect, perhaps not so drastic but still... something needs to happen...

[Anewbus]

I saw that 8662 as well (sweet). I like it, but like the 5797, it has to remain only a dream for me as it would run me about $1900 in the config I need. (Most of that cost in the OS as I need to run XP).

I don't know what to do about the USPS, I think they may be immune from any legal action?

Oh, you forgot to do this: XoticPC :XPCS::notworthy
:p

[robamb2002]

Quad core 15" notebook!?! Thatsa spicy meat-a-ball!

[Justin_W@XoticPC]

Quad core 15" notebook!?! Thatsa spicy meat-a-ball!

ROFL! You're phrases are always so funny and unique:laugh::notworthy

[potent]

It definitely a spicy meat ball!

This laptop has a very strange kind of heating issue...
I dont have it yet and am already getting all hot and bothered... :laugh::laugh::laugh:

[potent]

I have spoken to some people here in Hungary who gave me some very good information regarding importing to Hungary.
Perhaps you guys can use some of this information to help future interested buyers from Central Eastern Europe.

I am ordering from UPS this time which is a lot more expensive and will write about that process once I have gone through it, the information I have got thus far is regarding importing through USPS from another persons report.

Thanks to DRevan from Notebookreview.com

I never had troubles with Express Mail International *knock* *knock* *knock* :) in short I am maximally pleased with USPS...they are quick and reliable.

By the way...What did the tracking number say, where was it last registered? (You did check that, right?) Did it arrive at the hungarian customs office? Have you asked the customs office at Orczy Square (phone: 1-477-6534) about youre packadge? But my first question still stands...what does the tracking say, where was it the last time it got registered? If you didn't check, please check it (I assume you still have the tracking number). USPS probably deleted it from their web database by now, but when you enter the tracking number, you can ask them to restore it for a few days :rolleyes:

Another thing...I hope you are aware of the fact, that you have to pay customs+tax for it, since it is comming from outside of the European Union :rolleyes: At the momemt the customs is between 3-8% and the tax is 20% (will be 23% soon), so, let's say you order a new Sager np5797 from XoticPC for $1,641.24. You ask for USPS Express Mail International (you have to pay tax+customs even if you ask for UPS), which is $223.00 according to Xotic, so the price is $1864.24 with shipping. BUT when it arrives to Hungary, it goes to the customs office where they put the customs (let's say, 5%)+tax on the $1864.24 (yes mostly they count the shipping in it too) which if you don't pay, you won't get youre packadge. So the price would be $1864.24+ $484.7024 (tax+customs)-> final price of the laptop is $2348.9424! Yea, this country sucks :mad: And they are planning to raise tax from 20% to 23%, oh Jesus....

Oh...+ thanks to the problems with the economy, the Hungarian Forint is very weak compared to the US Dollar (whell, it was allready weak in november too...), so the price maybe the same in USD but you have to pay ~7% more in HUF when you convert it to USD :(



I know that shipping and extra customs make the laptop a lot more expensive, but there is nothing in Hungary that can compare to the power of this laptop and those that come even close are ridiculously expensive, even more than the imported one with shipping + taxes.
In Austria, the laptops are also very expensive compared to shipping+taxes :P

Can you tell me at what stage customs and excise has to be paid? Is it included in the UPS shipping or will I have to pay UPS extra or do I need to go down to the customs office and sort this out myself? UPS is around in Hungary, I see a lot of their vans, I imagine they bring it to my door which would save me a lot of effort :P

According to my understandings, that price does not include the tax+customs, so you have to pay that (officially ~$485, but sometimes they just ask for a random price if they don't know the exact value of the packadge) even if you ask for UPS... unless you are lucky and the customs personnel are too lazy to check it (happens often) :) but like I sad, you have to be extra lucky for that to happen...

Anyway, I probably ask for USPS when I order my GTX280M for my Sager np5796 :)



Sincerely,
an angry beaver from Hungary

do you know when I would have to pay that? Would I pay UPS to handle that and I pay them that extra or do it myself?
Many thanks!

Don't know exactly how that goes with UPS, but if you order it with USPS than it goes like this:
1) your package goes in to the customs

2) customs personnel tear it open and check whats inside

3) if they find any source of the price, they charge that $485 I am talking about, if they don't, they charge a random amount

4) they notify you in a few days by post that you got package and after you payed the price you can pick it up (but they can probably repack it too and pass it to the post office)

5) and so, after you payed the price you get youre packadge in a few days and if you are lucky, nothing is missing from it.

The fastest way is to, when you see at the tracking page that it entered customs you call them (posted phone number before) and ask about the package, and if they say that you have to pay customs+tax, you get the money ready and go in to Orczy Square and pay the price in person and than you get your package immediately.

btw, if you order it from the European Union (UK, Germany, Austria, etc) you can skip this procedure with the customs office since than you don't have to pay customs+tax :)

[robamb2002]

Thanks for posting your experience! I will definatley tuck this morsal of info away for the next time I hear about a european looking to buy.

[potent]

Happy to help, just keep in mind that Hungary has a ridiculously high vat, so in neighboring countries it wont be so bad in which they have 5-10% I believe compared to Hungary's 20 soon to be 23%...
;)

[potent]

Hi everyone!!

I got some great news!!!!!!!!!
XoticPC received the insurance check from USPS yesterday!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Order is going to go through now, just in time for the NP8662!!!!!!!!!!!

I would have posted this yesterday but the 3 bottles of champagne went to my head too fast and I forgot how to type :p:p

:wink2::wink2::wink2::wink2::wink2::wink2::wink2:: wink2:

[DRevan]

gz potent :)

Personally I never ordered anything with courier outside from the EU, only with USPS, so when you receive youre beast, please post how did things go with customs :) (but I assume it should be the same like I sad with USPS)

[potent]

gz potent :)

Personally I never ordered anything with courier outside from the EU, only with USPS, so when you receive youre beast, please post how did things go with customs :) (but I assume it should be the same like I sad with USPS)

The man himself. Thanks again for the help, I will post what its like with UPS.
Its curious for me because as far as I am aware UPS delivers to the door, it is 3 times more expensive though so perhaps they include some of those costs in the delivery. But I will give exact details once it arrives ;) but I just want it to get here finally :p

Well if it arrives around the 12th of April it can be a birthday present to myself :laugh::laugh:
HURRAY!!!!

[DRevan]

The man himself. Thanks again for the help, I will post what its like with UPS.
Its curious for me because as far as I am aware UPS delivers to the door, it is 3 times more expensive though so perhaps they include some of those costs in the delivery. But I will give exact details once it arrives ;) but I just want it to get here finally :p

Well if it arrives around the 12th of April it can be a birthday present to myself :laugh::laugh:
HURRAY!!!!

Yes, I know that UPS delivers to the door, but when you have to pay customs for a packadge delivered by courier than there are a lot of things that can happen:

1) Your packadge arrives to Hungary. It goes in to customs. Customs hold packadge because tax+duty is required and notify the Hungarian UPS. UPS contacts you and asks you to pay the fee. You send the money and UPS takes the packadge out from customs and deliver it to your door.

2) Your packadge arrives to Hungary. It goes in to customs. Customs hold packadge because tax+duty is required. UPS pays those fees and get the packadge out. UPS delivers it to your door where:
a) you have to pay the duty+tax for the packadge
b) you don't have to pay the duty+tax at delivery, instead they send you the bill later

Correct me if I missed something ;)

So I am curious how the Hungarian UPS handles this :)

But, you can go 100% and call the Hungarian UPS (phone: 06 40 98 98 98) and ask them how do you have to pay it :) If you tell them the value of the laptop, they will even tell the price you have to pay.

[potent]

Thanks for the reply, thats actually something I will have to do. I just hope that its not going to be overly complicated. As long as it doesnt take too long this time I will be happy :)

But I will make a detailed note once its done:wink2:

[potent]

HURRAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
GUESS WHAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
New order has been sent to Phase 2, custom building!!! :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:


(caps lock cause i got so excited and happy i lost it :p)

[DRevan]

any update yet potent?:)

[Justin_W@XoticPC]

There has been an update! I sent him an email on it, but I'll let him relay the information if he chooses :)

[potent]

Sorry I havent been around too often lately, been busy on my university thesis paper :wink2: which weirdly enough is very relevant to computers


Thank god, its finished now.

Yeah, updates:

As the 8662s were delayed from Sager, it got changed to Phase 1 again and then I got an email from Justin saying that the laptop has been finished and will be shipping in the next day or 2, FANTASTIC!!!

Unfortunately Sager didnt have any extra Blu-Ray, my laptop will come with a DVD writer and the Blu-Ray will be shipped a short while after the actual laptop at no extra charge! So I will have a spare writer :laugh::laugh:

I will update you guys as the updates come in and I will also post the import process via UPS for future reference :yes::yes:

Im so excited!!

[potent]

Another quick update.

I guess the package has shipped because I just received a call from UPS.

They are going to email me a form that I have to fill in, although this is in Hungary they also have english forms available (not sure if its overly valuable but just to clarify).

The package will arrive and be delivered on the 28th April, not sure exactly when the package shipped but lets assume yesterday the 22nd April, so thats approximately how long it takes for it to reach Hungary :p

There is no import duty that has to be paid apparently, only the VAT will have to be paid (which in Hungary is 20% very high i know :p) based on the original currency, so the total amount will vary depending on the exchange rate. I will pay this to the UPS delivery man when he comes to my door too.

It is a lot easier than USPS albeit a lot more expensive :p but it will be a lot more secure.

I will post if the actual process is any different from what ive been told
:biggrin:

Im just excited Im finally going to get it!!

[Jon]

Hi everyone!!

I got some great news!!!!!!!!!
XoticPC received the insurance check from USPS yesterday!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Order is going to go through now, just in time for the NP8662!!!!!!!!!!!

I would have posted this yesterday but the 3 bottles of champagne went to my head too fast and I forgot how to type :p:p

:wink2::wink2::wink2::wink2::wink2::wink2::wink2:: wink2:

Enjoy your new laptop!!!! it sounds great!!!

[Halaster]

Ayep, enjoy the laptop. :D

I ordered a 8662 as well and mine shipped the 22nd, and will arrive the 28th. :D
Pretty much same amount of time for shipping, and I am in the same state, haha.

[potent]

I am so excited!

When UPS contacted me telling me to fill up the "Power of Attorney" form it was very complicated but I called them and I only needed to fill in a few the fields and they accepted it.

I am extremely giddy about getting this laptop! I can barely contain myself...

On a side note, when it comes I want to partition it, making the OS drive 40 or 50Gb, can you lads recommend the most efficient way to do this? I was thinking in the Vista install process but am not sure about it. Any tips?

I also want to back the drive up, I bought acronis especially for this laptop and am wondering if it is possible to use it portably? (like if I install it on my current lappy and just copy the folders across to a mobile harddrive)

[Halaster]

Just grab the UltimateBootCD. It is bootable and has a vast number of utilities on it, including multiple different programs you can use to set up your partitions however you like. It is completely free as well. :D

http://www.ultimatebootcd.com/

[potent]

Thanks, Im going to give that a good gander :wink2:

[potent]

THE LAPTOPS COMING TOMORROW!!!
:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin::biggrin::biggrin: LALALALALALA! :biggrin::biggrin::biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:

I know I said today but the Hungarians have a different way of expressing themselves.
When I asked when the laptop will be arriving "here": they said on Tuesday, the laptop arrived in Hungary on Tuesday but will only get to me on Wednesday :p

Weird marketing or something, but I am getting giddy!!!

[potent]

Ok lads, the laptop has arrived!!!
I am so happy :wink2::wink2:

Going through UPS is so much easier than the USPS method I have read so much about.

Once you ship a good through UPS, UPS will contact the receiver and have you fill in a form giving them rights to handle the import procedure
*doesnt take 5 minutes because you dont need a lot of fields in it*
Then you just wait and pay the VAT when they come to your door, apparently there is no import tax other than the VAT. Simple as :biggrin:

[Halaster]

Congrats. :D

Still waiting for mine, it just reached the skinning/painting place yesterday.

[powerpack]

Ok lads, the laptop has arrived!!!
I am so happy :wink2::wink2:

Going through UPS is so much easier than the USPS method I have read so much about.

Once you ship a good through UPS, UPS will contact the receiver and have you fill in a form giving them rights to handle the import procedure
*doesnt take 5 minutes because you dont need a lot of fields in it*
Then you just wait and pay the VAT when they come to your door, apparently there is no import tax other than the VAT. Simple as :biggrin:You deserve it been so long! Go play with it and tell us how great it is!

[potent]

You deserve it been so long! Go play with it and tell us how great it is!

This machine is absolutely epic, for lack of a better word.
I am still very gentle with this machine as is its my unborn baby!!
A few issues and am looking for solutions but I dont think these issues are the fault of the machine, just an unwise user :p

[Trias]

Ok lads, the laptop has arrived!!!
I am so happy :wink2::wink2:

Going through UPS is so much easier than the USPS method I have read so much about.

Once you ship a good through UPS, UPS will contact the receiver and have you fill in a form giving them rights to handle the import procedure
*doesnt take 5 minutes because you dont need a lot of fields in it*
Then you just wait and pay the VAT when they come to your door, apparently there is no import tax other than the VAT. Simple as :biggrin:

it's great that you finally got a machine to your liking...enjoy!

[DRevan]

Ok lads, the laptop has arrived!!!
I am so happy :wink2::wink2:

Going through UPS is so much easier than the USPS method I have read so much about.

Once you ship a good through UPS, UPS will contact the receiver and have you fill in a form giving them rights to handle the import procedure
*doesnt take 5 minutes because you dont need a lot of fields in it*
Then you just wait and pay the VAT when they come to your door, apparently there is no import tax other than the VAT. Simple as :biggrin:

How much did you have to pay?
Oh and gz to your new laptop :)

[ashay]

Hey

I have just recently purchased the Sager Np 9280, and upon buying it started reading Potent's initial post, (when you didnt know what happened to you laptop).

I purchased my laptop from Xotic and i live in South Africa and am now worried because i chose the USPS method. How long did it take you to get your money back etc? Did you even get all of it back?

I hope my shipping doesnt get lost, this has worried me greatly.

Someone help.

Ashay