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Optimizt
06-17-2009, 03:21 PM
Hi all, I've been searching for a laptop for a month or two now with no luck in narrowing my search down. After seeing the prices and customer service here at XOTICPC, I decided this would be a great place to buy one. Still, I'm pretty indecisive, as one laptop might have something I want but lack something else I need.

Basically, I need a laptop for university (I start this fall), and I don't plan on bringing my desktop with me. I know there are a couple of "university laptop" threads already here, my requirements usually differ in one way or another, so I'm making a new thread. So, without further delay, the standard questions:

General Questions

1) What is your budget?
Up to $2100.

2) What size notebook would you prefer?
Don't really mind as long as it's easily portable (i.e. carrying it around in a backpack or bag). I would prefer a keyboard with a numpad, but that's not a strict requirement.

3) What country are you buying this in?
US

4) Are there any brands that you prefer or any you really don't like?
First laptop purchase, so I have no strong opinions... yet. ;)

5) What tasks will you be performing with the notebook?
Pretty much anything one would do on a desktop. One of my biggest hobbies is programming, so I would like a little power so I don't have to wait an hour for a compile. I also play games from time to time, but I'll elaborate on that in a second. Of course, I'll also be doing university related things like writing papers or doing research, but I don't think there will be a performance issue with office applications unless Crytek develops the next version of Word :P.

On somewhat of a side note related to programming, I would prefer the laptop to have an nvidia card, as one of my recent hobbies has been programming with CUDA. Something out of the GTX 200M series is preferred.

6) Will you be taking the notebook with you to different places or leaving it on your desk?
This will be my university laptop, so it will see a good bit of travel around the campus. I might use it in locations that don't have desks, so it would be nice if I could set it on my lap without my crotch setting on fire. Weight is not a concern, as I'll be carrying it in a backpack or bag.

7) Will you be playing games on it; if so, which games?
I do play a lot of games like TF2, Oblivion, or Fallout 3. I would like to be able to play these with high detail at native resolution at a decent frame rate.

8) How many hours of battery life do you need?
Not a huge concern; I'll be near an outlet if I'm doing anything intensive. It would be nice if I could get a laptop that got decent battery life while web surfing, though. The ability to undervolt/underclock would be great, as I could squeeze out even more web browsing time.

9) Do you mind buying online without seeing the notebook in person?
All I need is a few detailed pictures from a couple different angles and I'm set.

10) What OS do you prefer?
I plan to dual boot Vista Ultimate x64 and Ubuntu x64. Might upgrade to Windows 7 in the future. Don't include Vista in the price; I've already got a copy.

Screen Specifics

11) From the choices below, what screen resolutions would you prefer?
Strongly prefer WUXGA, but I can settle with WSXGA+. Nothing lower, though.

12) Do you want a glossy/reflective screen or a matte/non glossy screen?
I don't have much experience with glossy screens, but I would like something that I can use outside.

Build Quality and Design

13) Are the notebook's looks and stylishness important to you?
Looks don't translate into 3dmarks ;), but if possible, I'd prefer something that doesn't scream "X-TREME G4MER LAPTOP!!1111" None of the laptops here, though, seem to have that problem :).

14) When are you buying this laptop and how long do you want this laptop to last?
I hope to buy it soon (perhaps even tomorrow or Friday), and I'd like it to last 3-4 years for normal desktop activities like web surfing, word processing, etc. I'd also like it to be able to play games that come out in the next two years or so, but not necessarily at native res/max detail. Upgradable parts (such as the memory, video card, or processor) are a definite bonus in this category.

Notebook Components

15) How much hard drive space do you want; 80GB, 160GB, 250GB, 320GB, 500GB, 1TB, or 1.5TB?
At least 320GB. Storage capacity is not a big deal at the moment; I plan to pick up a 1 TB external in the future to store large files. On that note, eSATA support would be nice.

16) Do you need an optical drive? If yes, a CDRW/DVD-ROM, CD/DVD Burner or Blu-Ray drive?
I'd like a CD/DVD burner. A combo BD player/DVDRW would be nice if it could fit in the budget, but I can always get a BD drive later when they become less expensive.

17) What speed CPU/Processor would you like? Dual core or Quad Core CPU?
A dual around 3 gHz would be nice for now. It would also be nice if I could install a quad in the future once they become cheaper and games and applications start fully utilizing them.


Thanks in advance for any help.

Anewbus
06-17-2009, 05:19 PM
Hmm, looking at your answers I would suggest a 15.4 inch model anything bigger will be a heavy brick quickly, backpack or not.
Anything with at least 4GB of RAM and a decent CPU rate of at least 2.6GHz will handle your programming and anything else.:)
As far as using any of these machines on your lap as is without setting you on fire is how shall I put this,……out of the question.:eeek2: These are high quality “powerful” machines and not the kind of slop sold in the stores or Dell. These notebooks have heat, not doubt about it, power = heat, second law of thermal dynamics.
I have not tested this so take this with a tiny bit of caution, but you might try getting one of those “laptop desks or boards” I’ve seen in some stores and see if that keeps enough heat off your person.:)
As to screen type (Glossy/Matte) Glossy = normal to low light environments, Matte = bright lighting, outdoors. Most people prefer Glossy due to better contrast and depth of color, etc. However, outdoors with a Glossy will result in you seeing yourself in the screen and having everything look washed out. Things might look a little washed out on a Matte screen outdoors, but that depends where your sitting and at least you won’t be fighting with reflections, which can be a real pain.
Don’t worry, none of the machines here scream “GAMER NOTEBOOK” from the outside unless you get it skinned or painted. However, they do scream under the hood.:biggrin:
As for number pad included: Those are usually found on the 17 inch and above models. There are some 15.4 inch models with them, but the keyboards end up being weirder than lappy keyboards already are. They tend to get a bit too compact for some folks tastes.

Ok, that said, here is what I would look at: This is just an idea config, you can tweak this around all day if you like.

I configured this with a 2.8GHx CPU, WUXGA Matte screen and tacked on XoticPC’s best warranty for peace of mind although with TLC this machine will last well beyond 3 years. This brings the price close to your budget max. However, you can save a bit without too much sacrifice at all if you lowered the CPU down to the 2.66 GHz.
Also, if the 3-year labor/1-year parts warranty is good enough in your mind then that’s another $259 off the cost.

Sager NP8662 (Built on Clevo M860TU) Custom Gaming Laptop (http://www.xoticpc.com/product_info.php?products_id=2564%7B76%7D2438%7B18 7%7D1757%7B94%7D1074%7B92%7D2424%7B88%7D1925%7B186 %7D1532%7B93%7D2431%7B193%7D657%7B112%7D656%7B98%7 D1295%7B96%7D2434%7B168%7D1453%7B116%7D696%7B117%7 D705%7B120%7D703%7B110%7D2426%7B169%7D1449%7B119%7 D1898%7B100%7D734%7B164%7D1441%7B107%7D689%7B106%7 D1696%7B121%20)
- 15.4" WUXGA "Matte Type" Super Clear Ultra Bright Screen (1920x1200)
- Arctic Silver 5 Thermal Compound
- Standard Dead Pixel Policy
- ~Intel® P9700 45nm "Montevina" Core™2 Duo 2.8GHz w/6MB L2 On-die cache - 1066MHz FSB 25 watt
- nVidia GeForce GTX 260M 1,024MB PCI-Express DDR3 DX10 (User Upgradeable)
- No Video Adapter
- ~ 4,096MB DDR3 1066MHz Dual Channel Memory (2 SODIMMS) (Requires Vista 64-Bit to utilize Full 4GB)
- Standard Finish
- ~Combo 8x8x6x4x Dual Layer DVD +/-R/RW 5x DVD-RAM 24x CD-R/RW Drive w/Softwares
- ~ 320GB 7200RPM (Serial-ATA II 300 - 16MB Cache)
- No Back Up Hard Drive
- No Floppy Drive
- Internal 7-in-1 Card Reader (MS/MS Pro/MS Duo/MS Pro Duo/SD/Mini-SD/MMC/RS)
- Internal Bluetooth + EDR
- Built-in Intel® PRO/Wireless 5300 802.11 a/g/n Wi-Fi Link
- No Network Accessory
- Built in 2.0 Megapixel Camera
- No TV Tuner
- Sound Blaster Compatible 3D Audio - Included
- Basic Black Business Case - Included
- Smart Li-ion Battery (8-Cell)
- No Car Adapter
- No Dock/Hub/Adapter
- Integrated Fingerprint Reader
- No External Keyboard or Mouse
- No Notebook Cooler
- None Standard - Drivers & Utility Software Only
- No Office Software
- No Software Bundle
- 3 Year Parts & Labor Warranty 24/7 Tech Support

TOTAL = $2008.87 with cash discount

Optimizt
06-17-2009, 07:16 PM
Hey, thanks for the quick reply. While waiting on a reply I configured a NP8662 similar to that just to test my options. Great minds think alike I guess.

However, I've also looked at the NP5797, and it's pretty tempting. It only weighs 1.25 pounds more than the NP8662, so the weight shouldn't be that much of an issue. From what I've read, it also supports newer quad cores (so I can upgrade when I stop being a poor college student), and the GTX 280M looks like it would provide pretty good performance at 1920 x 1200. Both aspects should provide a little more longevity. It also fits in the budget they way I've configured it. Should I get the NP8662 or the NP5797?

Also, I've used one of those laptop boards you describe and they work pretty well. They basically provide a flat surface so that computer can vent and also provide a decent thermal barrier between your legs and the laptop.

powerpack
06-17-2009, 08:37 PM
NP8662 supports Quads so not a difference between it and NP5797.

The only advantage of the NP8662 is size. The NP5797 has better GPU and the number pad mentioned. And larger notebooks have an inherent thermal advantage vs smaller. Which helps putting more powerful CPU/GPU's in and pushing the thermal solution less.

Optimizt
06-18-2009, 10:44 AM
Thanks for the reply, powerpack.

Taking everything into account, I've decided to get the NP5797. Its size is pretty reasonable, and the GTX 280M seems to be worth the extra money. Also, I decided I wanted a glossy screen after seeing a few, and the NP8662's WUXGA screen is matte, while the NP5797's screen is glossy and WUXGA by default. The better cooling is also a definite plus.

I have one last question, though. Is the extra 140 mHz of the P9700 over the P8800 worth the extra $110? Common sense tells me no, but if it's possible to overclock, the 10.5 multiplier might be nice. If I was to ditch the P9700 in favor of the P8800, I could get the Blu-Ray drive, which would be nice considering the screen is capable of 1080p.

Woody
06-19-2009, 04:35 AM
... Is the extra 140 mHz of the P9700 over the P8800 worth the extra $110? Common sense tells me no, but if it's possible to overclock, the 10.5 multiplier might be nice. If I was to ditch the P9700 in favor of the P8800, I could get the Blu-Ray drive, which would be nice considering the screen is capable of 1080p.

I consider the P9700 the sweet spot for price/performance when selecting a CPU. If you can swing it I think it's worth it but that's just my opinion. It also has a better L2 cache size which can help in games and some other applications.

I would also recommend getting 4GB RAM and at least a 320GB 7200rpm drive but you may determine it's better to upgrade those items on your own especially since you plan to install your own OS.

I think the 5797 is the best value in that price range but have you looked at the ASUS G71GX-A1? At about the same price range you get dual hard drives and it includes a Blue Ray drive. You will sacrifice power with both a slower CPU and a slower NVidia GTXM 260 as well as being forced to buy a new Windows license. The only reason I mention this model is because of the dual hard drives and the blue ray drive. Dual hard drives would be very handy in a dual boot environment like you plan to create.

I don't know if it's still possible but I used to have a Sager 57xx series and I had a second internal hard drive that swapped out with the optical drive essentially making it dual internal hard drives with no optical. I don't think this option is still available but it would be nice especially if you can hot swap the drive bay.

fault
06-19-2009, 06:32 AM
Id suggest the NP 8662, but I dont have mine yet, so I dont want to recommened something I've never tried. Something to point out is they have USB numpads you can buy

powerpack
06-19-2009, 10:53 PM
On the processor question some things you should know. You mentioned undervolting. RMClock is the most widely used and works great. It works for me. One problem is does not handle non integer multipliers. Now on my 9.5x I can undervolt but must use a 9x multiplier. So if the extra L2 is important to you consider. CPUID does handle non integer multipliers but I can't get it to work well for me. It could be me but at this point I just can't recommend personally.

Is it worth $110 in any real logic based way. No none of the higher upgrades make economic/performance sense. But we still buy them because we want it all. And $110 is a fair price even if not "worth" it.

And OC'ing either of CPU's is a real option. It is realistic to expect from 300Mhz to 500Mhz OC. I get 320Mhz stable with stress testing and 500Mhz when I am just being nuts Does not pass a stress test (orthos) but it will let me mess around.