HD5870 or the GTX 460M?

[bfoster]

Hello everyone-
First let me say that historically I have been a diehard Sager man. In fact I am still happily using my 3 year old 9162 (CLEVO D900C) as I type this. But I have the "new laptop" bug and I am seriously considering one of the ASUS laptops at this stage. I am used to having a desktop CPU in my laptop though I don’t really know if I will personally be able to tell the difference between that and a mobile processor.

I am looking at the G73JH-A2 and the G73JW-A1. From what I can tell these laptops are identical in every way except for the graphics card and the price... the 460M seems to add an additional $300 or so to the price when I configure these. So basically my decision comes down to the HD5870 or the GTX 460M.

I would normally opt for nVidia as I am more familiar with their products and I have heard some negative things about ATI when it comes to driver support. The benchmarks I have seen show the 5870 as a faster card than the 460M, though not by much.

So I turn to you guys/gals to help me. Do you have experience with these cards? Would I even be able to tell the difference?

My other option is to wait for the Sager X7100 to finally come out though I am afraid I might have to sell some vital organs before I could afford it. :)

Thanks in advance for any info or advice you can offer.

[powerpack]

For almost $300 more you get CPU upgrade 740 vs 720, 1333MHz RAM vs 1066MHz, BR drive. $300 not a bad price for those 3.

On the 460 vs 5870 I am waiting like you to see. I think will be close in the end so for many would not matter. But the 5870 I am certain will always win just not sure if for most it would matter.

Tough choice good luck.

[VolleyKing]

For almost $300 more you get CPU upgrade 740 vs 720, 1333MHz RAM vs 1066MHz, BR drive. $300 not a bad price for those 3.

On the 460 vs 5870 I am waiting like you to see. I think will be close in the end so for many would not matter. But the 5870 I am certain will always win just not sure if for most it would matter.

Tough choice good luck.

Im not trying to argue because you have more experience but how is it 300 more dollars? the a2 is 1500 and the jw is 16XX (i dont know the exact number) and you get all those upgrades you said such as the cpu, ram mhz and what not in the jw without customization. so it should be only about $150ish upgrade correct?

lets be honest though, whats gonna be the huge difference in the long run? not too much unless you are very knit-picky about the performance. the nvidia will preform nearly as fast and so far what seems to be the case is that its more stable. but we dont know that because its only been a few days since it was released. AND we gotta see the performance on the drivers to be released in the future... in my opinion get the jw but i dont have a g73 yet so powerpack has more knowledge on how they are

Edit- the jw is 1691, and thats if you want the bluray....you can take that off and thats 90 bucks... just a suggestion unless you want the whole 3d experience i suppose but do you really think that 3d is gonna run great on one of the earliest 3d cards which is also mobile, making it even weaker than the desktop versions..

[mrmatt]

What are you talking about 3D? 3D rendering as far as games and such is very important. But wacky glasses 3D? Not good even on desktops. There is a difference between the 5870 and the 460. In the long run maybe some won't notice, but I personally want to be able to run games at native resolution as long as I can.

[powerpack]

Volley in my head I said $1500 and $1700 and came up with $300. Oh well my math not so good. But that does make the JW maybe even more appealing.

If the 460 works for the buyer it would be a better deal. And yea take off BR and cost is even closer. When I ordered the 1333 upgrade was expensive but I got lucky and got for free.

[VolleyKing]

Volley in my head I said $1500 and $1700 and came up with $300. Oh well my math not so good. But that does make the JW maybe even more appealing.

If the 460 works for the buyer it would be a better deal. And yea take off BR and cost is even closer. When I ordered the 1333 upgrade was expensive but I got lucky and got for free.

yeah true its just buyers preference.

[bfoster]

Thanks for the help giuys... at this stage I am really torn. I am actually thinking about sticking with Sager and going with the 8850. I would be loosing a few "freebies" and it doesnt have the backlit keyboard but I would get the 480M.

[VolleyKing]

Thanks for the help giuys... at this stage I am really torn. I am actually thinking about sticking with Sager and going with the 8850. I would be loosing a few "freebies" and it doesnt have the backlit keyboard but I would get the 480M.

well depending on if you are really picky about your card performance, the 480m is definitely the best nvidia but a small downgrade to the 460 wont be a biggy, and the 5870 definitely is good too

[mrmatt]

480 is barely better than the 5870 which is better than the 460. 480 is great if you want tesselation, but your willing to put up with the extra heat and power consumption.

[VolleyKing]

480 is barely better than the 5870 which is better than the 460. 480 is great if you want tesselation, but your willing to put up with the extra heat and power consumption.

oops my bad i didnt mean to even say the 480 haha he meant the 460. still an upgrade from the 5870 imo cuz of all the issues regarding the g73 with it

[Maverick494]

oops my bad i didnt mean to even say the 480 haha he meant the 460. still an upgrade from the 5870 imo cuz of all the issues regarding the g73 with it

except that there are more than just the G73 that have the 5870M.... So I don't get what the G73 issues have to do with the 5870M.

[VolleyKing]

except that there are more than just the G73 that have the 5870M.... So I don't get what the G73 issues have to do with the 5870M.
well the gsod but thats been fixed. plus we dont know how the 460 is doing with games rl, unless you guys have heard? im not sure

[Maverick494]

well the gsod but thats been fixed. plus we dont know how the 460 is doing with games rl, unless you guys have heard? im not sure

Once again the G73 isn't the only laptop with the 5870M in it. So I don't see why you are laying the problems with one laptop that happens to have a non-standard 5870M in it at ATi's feet.

The 460M from everything I have seen is about 10-15% and sometimes more behind the 5870M. Which is about right given the naming conventions from Nvidia.

[VolleyKing]

Once again the G73 isn't the only laptop with the 5870M in it. .
i didnt say anything about that in the last post...and ati has fail drivers for the most part. just to add that. im not even talking about the card, im trying to help bfoster decide for his laptop choice. the jw has the newest updates to the laptop including usb 3.0 and whatnot so that would probably be the better choice, and its only 100 dollars more(without bluray) gj mav...

[powerpack]

i didnt say anything about that in the last post...and ati has fail drivers for the most part. just to add that. im not even talking about the card, im trying to help bfoster decide for his laptop choice. the jw has the newest updates to the laptop including usb 3.0 and whatnot so that would probably be the better choice, and its only 100 dollars more(without bluray) gj mav...JW is tempting The only issue I have is how does the 460 do? Mav does have point on the 5870 is not only offered in the G73 line. His Sager has it.

You do say ATI driver fail and that is a whole can of worms. I don't want to go point to point but if ATI drivers are so bad does OK vs 480m? But like I said don't want to go there. I am no expert on GPU's and I agree that bad driver support is a constant knock against ATI vs Nvidia.

If I had any confidence in the 460m the G73JW would be an obvious option but as of yet I have not seen results that put me there.

[lordvader]

JW is tempting The only issue I have is how does the 460 do? Mav does have point on the 5870 is not only offered in the G73 line. His Sager has it.

You do say ATI driver fail and that is a whole can of worms. I don't want to go point to point but if ATI drivers are so bad does OK vs 480m? But like I said don't want to go there. I am no expert on GPU's and I agree that bad driver support is a constant knock against ATI vs Nvidia.

If I had any confidence in the 460m the G73JW would be an obvious option but as of yet I have not seen results that put me there.

I am waiting for the results too
I want to get a New laptop, been a month i have been waiting
& now its about time & ready to buy :p

It would really be nice if the Gaming Laptop section on XoticPC site
had a ratings bar(which is more powerful) below each laptop
That would Help alot,
Please do consider this request :)

Would Help is your Sales alot :biggrin:
Best site to buy Laptops i would say :notworthy

[bfoster]

Well I will hopefully get you guys some 460M results soon as I have decided to go with the JW. :)

[powerpack]

Well I will hopefully get you guys some 460M results soon as I have decided to go with the JW. :)Would like that very much.;)

[Maverick494]

i didnt say anything about that in the last post...and ati has fail drivers for the most part. just to add that. im not even talking about the card, im trying to help bfoster decide for his laptop choice. the jw has the newest updates to the laptop including usb 3.0 and whatnot so that would probably be the better choice, and its only 100 dollars more(without bluray) gj mav...

You must be living in some parallel universe where it is 2 years ago and ATi had some driver issues, because that is far from the case now. ATi is even working toward a driver series that helps cut the lead Nvidia has with Tessellation.

and while it is only 100 dollars more (I never mentioned price so I don't know why you are trying to point that out like I did) and has 1, yep that's right 1, USB 3.0 port it still doesn't have DVI-D, Esata, or firewire. Its still one of the biggest laptops in that chassis size.

Also the MSI has USB3.0 and 5870M and it is the same price or cheaper.

[VolleyKing]

You must be living in some parallel universe where it is 2 years ago and ATi had some driver issues, because that is far from the case now.

and while it is only 100 dollars more (I never mentioned price so I don't know why you are trying to point that out like I did)

they still have driver issues(he asked for advice about the 73 not the msi) and you arent helping bfoster at all. and i pointed out the price for the thread creater, which is the reason for the forums. stop trolling

[mrmatt]

they still have driver issues(he asked for advice about the 73 not the msi) and you arent helping bfoster at all. and i pointed out the price for the thread creater, which is the reason for the forums. stop trolling

Mav is right. The 5870 has no driver issues, it's the custom drivers/vbios from Asus due to the reverse MXM slot that had issues. ATI has really gotten better about their drivers.

[bfoster]

Well boys, at the end of the day it doesnt really matter... the order has been placed and the credit card charged. :)

Thanks again for all the help... either way I dont think I will have any issues with the performance of this machine.

ASUS G73JW-A1
-Display: 17.3" FHD 16:9 "Glare Type" Super Clear Ultra Bright LED Glossy Screen (1920x1080)-
- Dead Pixel Policy: 1 Year "No Dead Pixel" Guarantee
- Processor: - Intel® Core™ i7-940XM Extreme, 2.13-3.33GHz, (45nm, 8MB L3 cache)
- Thermal Compound: Stock OEM Thermal Compound ( IC Diamond Thermal Compound - CPU + GPU Provided FREE with Processor Upgrade!)
- Graphics Video Card: nVidia GeForce GTX 460M 1,536MB PCI-Express GDDR5 DX11
- Ram: 16,384MB (16GB) DDR3 1333MHz Dual Channel Memory (4x4GB)-
- Optical Drive: - 6X Blu-Ray Writer/Reader + 8X DVDRW/CDRW Super Multi Combo Drive-
- Primary Hard Drive: - 256GB Crucial C300 Solid State Drive (SSD Serial-ATA III)
- Second Hard Drive: - 500GB 7200RPM 16MB Cache Buffer (Serial-ATA II 3GB/s) - Default
- Memory Card Reader: Internal 8-in-1 Card Reader: MMC/SD/Mini-SD/XD/Memory Stick/MS Pro/MS Duo/MS Pro Duo
- Bluetooth: Internal Bluetooth + EDR
- Wireless Network: -Intel® Advanced-N 6200 - 802.11A/B/G/N Wireless LAN Module
- Camera: Built in 2.0 Megapixel Camera
- Sound Card: Sound Blaster Compatible 3D Audio - Included
- Case: Asus G Series Matching Backpack made by Targus
- Battery: Smart Li-ion Battery (8-Cell)
- Mouse / Keyboard Accessories: Asus G Series Gaming Mouse
- Warranty: 2 Year ASUS GLOBAL Warranty 24/7 Support / 1 Year North America (N.A.) Accidental Coverage (Accidental Requires Registration)

[mrmatt]

Dang dude. You went all out!

[bfoster]

There is no going halfway. :)

Plus it didnt hurt that a friend of mine is picking up my old laptop for a $1000 to offset the cost a little.

[mrmatt]

Ah that helps. Bench the hell out of it for us when you get it!

[powerpack]

$3632? That is NP9285 money maybe even NP7280. But enjoy it is one hell of a machine.

[bfoster]

Holy crap! I didnt think they had launched the NP7280 yet and I didnt think it was going to be released before I had to leave the country again.

Time to make some calls I think!

[mrmatt]

Holy crap! I didnt think they had launched the NP7280 yet and I didnt think it was going to be released before I had to leave the country again.

Time to make some calls I think!
I think you would be happier with the Sager at that price.

[bfoster]

Yes I know I would. That is the one I wanted to begin with but with all of the delays it looked like it wouldnt come out in time.

I just got a call and email today confirming my order so I would think they would have no issue in stopping that one and changing it to the 7280. Especially since it gets them another grand over what I was paying for the ASUS vs me not buying anything right now.

[powerpack]

Sorry to ruin another perfectly happy moment.:p:D

But yea that kind of money is Sager money if it was me.;)

[bfoster]

Powerpack I am really glad you brought it up! :)

[bfoster]

Ok... the deed is done. I was able to cancel the previous order and get what I wanted to get all along. :)

Sager apparently only offers the 160GB Intel SSD HDD so I ordered my own Crucial RealSSD C300 256GB SATA III MLC Internal SSD. I'll stick the 500GB drive that comes with this unit in the 2nd HDD slot and I'll use an extra 500GB drive from my current laptop for the 3rd HDD slot.

Sager NP7280 Custom Laptop (Built on the Clevo X7200)
- Display: 17.3" FHD 16:9 "Glare Type" Super Clear Ultra Bright LED Glossy Screen (1920x1080)
- Dead Pixel Policy: 30 Day 0 Dead Pixel Guarantee - Special
- Processor: Intel® Core™ i7-980X Exreme Edition (3.33-3.6GHz) 12MB L3 Cache, 6.4GT/sec QPI, LGA 1366 6 Cores/12 Threads
- Thermal Compound: - IC Diamond Thermal Compound - CPU + GPU
- Graphics Video Card: SLi ENABLED DUAL (2) 2048MB PCI-Express nVIDIA GTX 480M's (4096MB Total) w/GDDR5 DX11 Video Cards (User Upgradeable)
- Ram: ~ 12,288MB DDR3 1333MHz Memory (3 SODIMMS) (w/ i7 980 CPU Only)
- Optical Drive: ~ 6X Blue-Ray Burner/Reader / 8X DVDRW Super Multi Combo Drive
- Primary Hard Drive: ~ 500GB 7200RPM (Serial-ATA II 300 - 16MB Cache)
- Memory Card Reader: Internal 3-in-1 Card Reader (SD/MMC/MS)
- Bluetooth: Internal Bluetooth + EDR
- Wireless Network: Intel® Ultimate-N 6300 - 802.11A/B/G/N Wireless LAN Module
- Camera: Integrated Digital Video Camera
- Sound Card: Sound Blaster Compatible 3D Audio - Included
- Case: Basic Black Business Case - Included
- Battery: Primary Smart Li-ION Battery Pack - Included
- Operating System: ~Windows 7 Ultimate 64-Bit Installed (64&32-Bit CD Included) w/ Drivers & Utilities CD's
- Warranty: 3 Year Labor* 1 Year Parts Warranty Lifetime -24/7 DOMESTIC Based- Toll Free Telephone Tech Support (Labor Warranty through Xotic PC) Includes FREE Shipping Both Ways for Warranty Repairs

[iieeann]

hmm, i am looking for new laptop too at the moment, <16", but has put on hold after Sandy Bridge is announced. I will wait till the platform is ready in next few months. I don't want my system to become 'past generation' so soon if i buy now and let the 940XM become something in the memory just in 2-3 months.

5870m vs 460m is really hard to answer, I may choose 5870m if money is the concern. If the question is 470m then i am towards 470m regardless of the cost. if 480m is offered on 15" laptop i will definitely follow. 17" laptop is just too big for me to carry around daily and it is not presentable in business meeting, too bad.

[bfoster]

Sandy Bridge is interesting and should certainly contribute to better mobile performance... should be great for businesses that do not need or want the added expense of a dedicated GPU, they promise longer battery life as well. For a desktop replacement/gaming rig I dont see it as a worthwhile reason to wait though.

Unfortunately as has always been the case with computers and electronics in general, as soon as you buy it something more powerful comes along to replace it. :)

[powerpack]

bfoster I want you to post your thoughts on your notebook when you get. Some of us can only read as we can't afford. Please share. And I am glad I could help. Enjoy your new system.:)

[bfoster]

If the experience is anything like it was 3 years ago when I bought my 9261 I am sure to be thrilled. But yes I am hoping they can get it to me quickly before I have to leave the country again and I will gladly post my thoughts and some numbers for you guys.

The really silly part of this whole purchase is that I am still quite happy with my old 9261... have yet to find anything those twin 7950 GTX cards couldnt push through and still maintain good quality. But I just got the "I want something new bug" and it wont go away. :)

[lordvader]

Sandy Bridge is interesting and should certainly contribute to better mobile performance... should be great for businesses that do not need or want the added expense of a dedicated GPU, they promise longer battery life as well. For a desktop replacement/gaming rig I dont see it as a worthwhile reason to wait though.

Unfortunately as has always been the case with computers and electronics in general, as soon as you buy it something more powerful comes along to replace it. :)

When will we be seeing Sandy Bridge cpu
this yr or next ?

[bfoster]

Everything I've read lately indicates Q1 2011 for desktop and mobile.