My Purchasing Experience - ASUS N61JQ-B2

[JerseyReef]

I created this thread to discuss my experience with XoticPC and since I didn't see a thread for N61J-B2, I created a new one.

I hope all who read this can benefit from my review.

Regarding XoticPC


Ordering Process
Overall, it was okay. I had to go through a lot of hurdles to obtain the 3% cash discount. It wasn't an easy process. Granted this is mainly an issue with PayPal and they way they have their interface setup. However, XoticPC should look at ways to streamline the process with PayPal. Justin and I had a conversation about this issue and understands that there are problems and it needs to be resolved.
Regarding stacked discounts. XoticPC should look into addressing this issue within their ordering platform. End users that have stacked discounts (i.e., free shipping and 3% off) have to make an inquiry into XoticPC for the "true" price and any delta is refunded through a credit back to a Credit card or other forms of payment. The time saved for XoticPC sales/support staff and end users would be tremendous (no need to exchange e-mails, process credits back to a Credit Card, etc...) And not to mention, the piece of mind end users would have knowing what the "true" price of the order at the time of the order. Less than confident online purchases can put off novice users.

Packing
My Asus unit came in the OEM box surrounded by a shipping box. Which is typical. However, what I was surprised to see was that only a single side of the box was "protected" by a very thin layer of foam peanuts. And when I mean thin, I'm talking about a single layer. We all know how UPS and other carriers ship boxes and the abuse they encounter.
The OEM box should be fully enclosed in foam peanuts on all sides. This added level of protection not only saves in insurance claims and frustrated customers for damaged units, but increases customer loyalty and XoticPC customer service efficiency through lower RMA's.

My ASUS N61j-B2 was modified and not a stock unit. However, without opening it up or performing an inventory scan, I wouldn't know if it was completed or not. I was surprised not to see an order slip and/or a modification completion request with the shipment. Is this common practice on behalf of XoticPC not to include this? If it is, my recommendation would be to include it going forward. It confirms that the unit has been modified prior to leaving XoticPC and confirms for the end user that requested work has been completed.
For me, I had to dig up my order e-mail and remember which items were modifications and which ones were stock.

Test Results. I'm not sure the level of testing XoticPC performs and what their looking for. However, no report is included for the end user on the results. It appears that all custom units are tested. It should be included for future reference for the end user. XoticPC should also perform benchmarks on all custom PC's prior to leaving XoticPC and be included for the end user, specifically for upgraded CPU and GPU components. This information would help identify less than optimal units and be of tremendous value for Customer Support and the end user.
ASUS Material - This is my first ASUS and I was surprised that machine didn't have a manual or a quick start guide. Just a warranty card and associated accessories (battery, power cords, etc...). Is this typical for ASUS or was some of my material left behind somewhere?

Regarding ASUS N61J-B2 - This will only be a partial, as I'm charging up the batteries.


Technical Specs
The B2 is a nice variant on the N61JQ line.
i7-740QM (standard)
BluRay/DVD Combo (standard)
4GB 1333MHz RAM (standard)
ATI 5730 1GB VRAM (standard)
Plenty of ports (USB 3.0 and 2.0, eSata, HDMI, J45, etc...)
16" screen 16:9 WXGA (1366x768)

Upgrades I elected
HD to a 500GB (w/ 4GB SSD Memory) Seagate XT 7200RPM
IC Diamond Thermal Compound


Aesthetics
The exterior shell is nice black glossy, with a slight pattern design which is not raised. Does not appear to attract fingerprints, smudges, etc...
The look is very clean and professional. Not some of the unprofessional looks that the "Gamers" line has.

The keyboard and palm area is a matte finish (thank God). The keys are chick-let style and have no bend or give. The mouse tap area is nice and smooth and easy to use and does not get in the way of typing.
The screen hinge is very sturdy, has no give or wobble and opens and closes very easily and smoothly.
The unit has some weight to it, ~ 6.5lbs

The rest of the review will come at later date once I get the batteries charged and do some bloatware surgery...

Thanks,

Mike Raffa - JerseyReef

[DaBoatOfUs]

Thanx for your post - and agree that the customer is entitled to the specs you mentioned.

I'm very disheartened to hear these things though, as I thought that ordering thru Xotic was going to provide me with the highest level of customer service in all aspects, not just from the 'sales' end. This is, I have to admit, going to have me reconsidering my other purchasing options.

I also read another post wherein the purchaser received their laptop tonight, and the box was opened. When he called Asus, they directed him to call Xotic, and when he did, no one was available to take his call.

[lightgeoduck]

I also read another post wherein the purchaser received their laptop tonight, and the box was opened. When he called Asus, they directed him to call Xotic, and when he did, no one was available to take his call.


For now,if I were you I wouldn't worry too much. I just wanted to point out if the thread you are refering to is this one: http://www.xoticpcforums.com/showthread.php?t=7863


First he didn't call Xotic PC because he knew they were not open at the time....

Second, it appears that his concern has been resolved since there was a reason for his "open" box.


I only bring this up, because I know how it is to wait, (especially since I am waiting on my first purchase from here.) and how bad is to want what you are waiting for.


LGD

[StuBaby]

I am very disappointed to see this thread, and quite surprised that no one from xotic has responded. I was ready to plop over 4 grand into a system... not any more. What a shame.:mad::mad::mad::mad:

[JerseyReef]

As the OP of this thread, I should finish it... as I left the performance side incomplete.

First however, let me state that I was very dissappointed that nobody from XoticPC responded to my first post regarding the ways to improve their customer experience. My comments and suggestions on how to improve were not a "slam" but constructive and yet no phone call, e-mail or PM. It's a wasted opportunity, IMO...

Regarding the performance of the laptop. I couldn't be happier, up until it hit the 2 month mark. My LCD screen went out in what I expected to be a bad video card.

I place a call into XoticPC for service. They inform me that ASUS will need to perform the service, although the unit was modified, XoticPC will not repair the unit, only if the componets they modify appear to be the issue.

This was very disspointing to me, as I feel that XoticPC altered the configuration of the laptop per my specifications and should be the main POC for repairs. If I were ASUS, I would say to XoticPC, "you alter it, you bought it".

Needless to say, I forced to deal with the maze that is ASUS. After several weeks of proding them every other day, trying to get updates, resolution to the defect and ship date. Well one day, unkonwon to me, the laptop shows up via FedEx in the OEM box (very dissapointed about that).

I open it and turn it on and the OS will not load. I call into ASUS Tech Support, to find out what they repaired (there was no report in the box) and why the laptop was shipped if the OS couldn't be started.

After a very frustrating hour with ASUS Tech support I gave up. Taking a step back and analyizing the issue from square one, I realized that the issue with the OS was HD related and went into the BIOS to see if the HD was listed, it wasn't. Flipped it over, removed the back panel, expecting not to see the HD. It was there, but Tech had unscrewed it and the device shifted out of it's slot. Inserted it (need to find some hardware screws), flipped it back over and turned it on...OS system back.

I did find out from ASUS that they did not replace the Video Card, or the screen. In fact they replaced the motherboard. Which was sorta of odd, consdering that I was able to drive an external screen with the video card drivers removed and operate on VGA only.

Why did I mention the motherboard repair? One of the modifications that I paid for through XoticPC was new Thermal pasting for CPU and VRAM. Assuming XoticPC did apply it, ASUS surely did not.

I can tell you that my CPU cores run hotter than it did before and that the reported tempurature is erractic in a small variance window. It's clear that the thermal past is OEM and not the upcharge I paid with XoticPC.

IMO, XoticPC should be resonbile to diagnose and repair any ASUS laptop that they modify.

However, I'm sure this thread will go unoticed as did my first post...

Thanks,

Mike Raffa - JerseyReef

[JerseyReef]

dang it... I just typed up a long reply, previewed it and posted it. Now it's not here... :(

Let's give it a minute or two and see if come back. If not, I'll have to rewrite it

Thanks,

Mike Raffa - JerseyReef

[DaBoatOfUs]

I dunno now ... I was skeptical about ordering through a boutique in the first place, and if I were to make the plunge, thought that Xotic was supposed to be the best out there. But the initial Poster's comments do not indicate as such.

A co-worker's neighbor told him that he had been searching the web for a customized laptop and also ran across Xoticpc. To make a long story short though, he decided to order an Asus from Costo because he was not only going to get Asus' full 2 yr warranty, etc., but he also has 90 days in which to return it if he doesn't like it - no restocking fee or anything - and he doesn't have to ship it back to them, he can take it back to any of Costco's stores. (If he likes the system, he's going to upgrade the ram himself.) He ordered it last Friday and it arrived that following Monday. (That's pretty quick.) Anyhow, my co-worker hasn't had time to talk to him since, so I can't add anything more beyond that (sorry). Myself, however, am going to keep my purchasing options open at the moment, especially since I'm not in any hurry for the laptop.

[JerseyReef]

Looks like my post never showed up...I'll write a new one when I return from running a few errands.

Thanks,

Mike Raffa - JerseyReef

[Slowboto]

Every place has people with bad experiences. I can tell you that my experience with Xotic was top notch and I definitely plan to strongly consider them when it comes to replacement time. I can also tell you that some of the people that have complained in the past, not all of them, were idiots that didn't handle things right and decided to do a rant on here.(Not the OP for this thread, I like his ideas and think he wrote them out well.)

What many don't realize is that Xotic is not some huge mega corporation filled to the brim with people. They are relatively small in that sense but they offer lots of options to customers and they do quality work and testing. For those that want to complain about a simple task causing them to take a while to send an item, then just do it yourself. They will then send your machine right away when they receive it. Xotic also works with customers and helps them out with a lot of stuff if you call them. Can't tell you how many times people have come on here bitching and yet they only sent an email a short time earlier and didn't bother calling. If you have a major issue then call them and they will help. Heck I've seen them help with stuff that in all honesty they were not obligated to help with, but they did nonetheless.

[Joseph@XoticPC]

Good afternoon. I have read through the original posters comments and I will say that while we did read his comments and actually implemented some of his suggestions. I.e. making sure that all technicians know the proper way to re-package the laptops with enough packaging around the entire box, not just one side. Also we are beginning a new process soon where a screenshot of the vantage/3dmark scores will be placed on the desktop.(coming soon, just trying to figure out the easiest way to do this as we actually want to upload these images to the online account so we are still working that out) We did not post a reply on these forums because we had phone contact with the customer during the process and had thought that was the most important thing. We were obviously wrong about that and we should have posted here just to let everyone know that his suggestions were not being taken lightly and actually were good ideas that are being implemented into our every day process.

I also want to address RMA's with Asus as hearing about his experience has made me cringe. For any customer of Xoticpc please email service@xoticpc.com if you have problems with your computer. We can help you set up the RMA with our rep at Asus to provide you premium service at the most appropriate service center. Plus we can make sure that any and all customizations that are done to the laptop remain during the process. It is true that your warranty is through Asus and all repairs are done by them, however we can make that process much more smooth. Additionally no matter what an Asus customer service rep says(they are subcontracted and are no where near the service center for Asus) about a customized laptop, Xoticpc is 100% authorized to make any and all changes to the laptops we sell. Asus doesn't have a "you customized it, you bought it mentality because they allow the changes to be made. Nothing that we do to it will void your warranty and setting up the RMA through our service department will make that even more apparent when you get your laptop back. All of the reps at Xoticpc know to tell customers to email in to service so we can provide that extra level of service. I am very sorry to hear that this didn't happen for this customer and can just suggest that if anyone has problems with a laptop either customized or stock that they contact Xoticpc. We can't help unless we know about it.

If there is ever anything that any of you need please do not hesitate to email me directly at Joseph@xoticpc.com. I would be very glad to take care of your problems or questions personally.

Thanks

Joseph L

[powerpack]

Good response Joe.

[JerseyReef]

As the OP to this thread, I should finish my thread and respond to some of the posts made by XoticPC and others. Too bad my earlier response didn't take...oh well.

Regarding the shipping, payment process and machine modification suggestions, I wish somebody at XoticPC had actually contacted me, they did not. Shame too...because I could have assisted with implementing the suggestions. It's what I do for a living...

For anyone else who thought this was "just another rant" is mistaken. So let's move on...

On the performance side, the laptop was great until 2 months into service. My LCD screen died.

I put a call into XoticPC and they informed me that they would not service the machine, even if they had modified it. It HAD to go to ASUS for diagnose. XoticPC will only honor components they actually replaced/modified. I was somewhat surprised by this, but yielded and started the ASUS repair process.

That was a painful process and somewhat lacking in proper communication. While XoticPC and ASUS suspected a bad monitor, I suspected a bad video card, as I was able to drive an external monitor using VGA only. But again I yielded to the experts...

After calling ASUS every other day to a status updates, with no indication that my machine had been repaired, my machine showed up one day via FedEx. Mind you, no e-mail from ASUS on repair completion or shipment.

The machine was delivered in the OEM box (cringe) and no paperwork on what was repaired by ASUS. After a quick call into ASUS to find out what was repaired, they informed me that the Mobo was replaced and found no issue with the monitor or video card.

Turn the machine on and the OS fails to load (couldn't get past BIOS). So another call into ASUS and after a very frustrating hour, they hung up on me. As I wondered how could they ship a machine and not have it work when it left? I did place a call into XoticPC, they didn't pick up nor did I get a return call.

So starting from square one, I took a step back and looked at the symptoms and troubleshooted from there. Looking at the BIOS, I noticed that the HD wasn't listed in the boot device. Which was odd... My first thought was that ASUS didn't install my customized HD and installed a OEM version, with no OP installed. I flipped it over and removed the case. I found the HD there, but it wasn't screwed down and it had slipped out of the socket, either during shipping or wasn't installed properly at ASUS.

After correcting that issue, OS came right up. I had to reinstall ATI drivers (I had removed them while in VGA mode) and was up and running.

Here's the issue that bothers me. If XoticPC modifies an OEM machine, then XoticPC should be responsible for repair and troubleshooting, not just on the components they modify. I know if I were ASUS, I would insist on it. But it would instill confidence in the customers who buy from XoticPC and XoticPC should be able to become an authorized repair rep to overcome any warranty issues.

As for me, I did have XoticPC upgrade the thermal paste for the CPU and video card (among other things). As the mobo was replaced, I'm sure I lost that and was given OEM thermal paste from ASUS. My CPU core temps are a little bit erratic and higher since the repair and I'm sure it's because of a sloppy thermal paste job done by ASUS. I'm not bent about loosing $35 for the upgrade, just disappointed that something I paid for cannot be put back in because ASUS repaired the machine and XoticPC did not.

I think XoticPC should step up and handle all ASUS machines that they touch (modify).

Trust me this machine rocks and I love it, not as much as I used to.

And Joe, maybe you have me confused with somebody else, but Jason has my contact information as does the service department on their VM. But you and I have never spoken about the suggestions I made in the OP.

Thanks,

Mike Raffa - JerseyReef

[StuBaby]

Thanks Mike, makes me sad to see that you spent all this money for peace of mind with respect to product and service and got screwed repeatedly. I'm gonna call it quits with Xoticpc and Asus laptops before I even get started and take my 4 grand elsewhere.

I build my own PC using Asus ROG MB's but when it comes to laptops, I'll go with Dell and shell out 400$ for 4 yrs of Accidental insurance and peace of mind. Dell has always come through for me with two laptops over the last 8 yrs. Good luck to you...
-stu

[powerpack]

Mike I like your thoughts in many ways on improvement. By saying I like I mean yea in a perfect world would be nice. On some of your complaints I agree there are some issues. Things I never considered have become obvious to me now. Some who comment on your post I think are going a little extreme. I mostly mean the I am going to spend $4,000 but will now go with DeLL to be laughable at best. DeLL has their share of issues and offer lower performance systems. So if shooting yourself in the foot is a smart choice that poster is correct. Go with DeLL by all means.

Mike on your first post and what could of been done. By all means shipping with documentation and more specifically when mods are done is a fine idea. In what I do we call something like a punch list. My only comment is your order form lists ands if you don't trust the vendor what good is a punch list. So not such a holy grail.

I think your thoughts on showing tests and results along with a punch list is a great idea. I just at this time don't hold that as such a negative. I think you have a great idea and Xotic should consider doing. But all DeLL does is include a copy of your order, Xotic could do that. Both those are just a false sense nothing more. So as it is your wish is ahead of what is offered.

On your problems. Oh yes you are 100% correct on the thermal paste as far as I can tell. I would think on that and some others it must go back to Xotic to be redone. It is a flaw in the repair chain. I had never thought of that until you pointed out. And of course a punch list of what was done as before would be nice. I think your thoughts on Xotic becoming a repair center for what they sell is very good also.

Asus has a history that has issues. They got someone in China arrested on something similar to extortion for complaining about their warranty repair. Anything China related has human rights issues potentially. That said most notebook manufacturers are based in Taiwan but the build is in China so don't think the DeLL's are built in Texas.

Be careful blaming Xotic for things they can't control or change. That comment is less for Mike but more for those who want to bail thinking the grass is greener, it's not. There are several reputable vendors of Asus they will suffer the same as Xotic. If DeLL was an option I question why you where here in the first place. DeLL is the king of replacements.

Mike you should feel free to post all your thoughts. But to get results you should contact Xotic. You have points and issues that make sense. As such I can't see you not get satisfaction.

I hate to say this but Sager is an OEM for Clevo (ODM) and based in the US. That might have advantage?

Mike I hope it gets worked out.

[DaBoatOfUs]

Hey Mike, thanx for your input ... I learned a lot. Unfortunately, the way issues are handled is exactly how I hoped it wouldn't be if I order thru Xotic. I was hoping that if ordered thru them, and an issue arises, that they would be the ones that I would deal with, not Asus directly. Yup, definitely a bummer. And sorry, but not to have what you originally paid for just isn't right - you should have the thermal paste you paid for - you purchased that option for a reason.

I think it's great that Xotic is working at implementing some of your recommendations ... companies that listen to their customers, is a GOOD thing!

Now as for Asus' customer service? Cripe, now I want to know who rates the highest in customer satisfaction ... Sager? MSI? ? ? ? ? :confused:

[powerpack]

Do you guys know about this? Boat you seem to sidetrack which is cool but you do.

http://www.keyframe5.com/wp-content/uploads/wrost-laptop-brand.jpg

Link (http://www.keyframe5.com/the-worst-laptopnotebook-brand-hp/). DeLL has great customer service. Do you really want to plan on taking advantage when you buy?

[StuBaby]

Some who comment on your post I think are going a little extreme. I mostly mean the I am going to spend $4,000 but will now go with DeLL to be laughable at best. DeLL has their share of issues and offer lower performance systems. So if shooting yourself in the foot is a smart choice that poster is correct. Go with DeLL by all means.

"Laughable at best"! That's funny. Paying a premium to avoid a headache and have it blow up in your face! Put a price on what Mike has gone through, trusting a company to stand behind their product and not finger point. With Dell, I got exactly what I paid for, what did Mike get??

XoticPC felt threatened enough to remove my post, that's right, Powerpack, the one you made reference to, can you find it anywhere in this thread? Give me a break. Now that's censorship, and that is laughable at best, yeash :yes:

[powerpack]

I am very disappointed to see this thread, and quite surprised that no one from xotic has responded. I was ready to plop over 4 grand into a system... not any more. What a shame.:mad::mad::mad::mad:Your deleted post which I saw was the same as this your 1st. Maybe they don't want redundancy?:p;):D

Go buy your DeLL. Drop $4000 grand. Have a ball. Why are the DeLL/AlienWare people trolling here? Holiday sales down?;)

[Admin@XoticPC]

StuBaby (http://xoticpcforums.com/member.php?u=16696) - Welcome to our forums. Although we find some of your comments a little out of the ordinary coming from a new user, one of your comments were removed due to it being not only false but unnecessary.

Xotic PC regularly coordinate's RMA's for customers with ASUS along with Sager & MSI. Customers are more then welcome to reach out to our Service Department to set up RMA's with us rather then dealing directly with ASUS, Sager or MSI. We are always here to help.

We appreciate the feedback the OP provided. Although we wish we could provide the warranty service on ASUS notebooks, unfortunately ASUS prefers the channels it has set up presently with them doing the repairs themselves. Maybe in the future this will change. :) Obviously ASUS is going through many growing pains presently and we have provided this feedback to them. ASUS has seen tremendous growth over the last year and we continually provide feedback we see necessary and the feedback provided by our customers.

We do our best to listen, learn, and adapt new procedures based on the feedback from our customers.

[JerseyReef]

All,

As I stated before, this wasn't a soapbox rant or a mud slinging party at ASUS or XoticPC.

All I did was point out some of the flaws that I perceived and observed in the ordering, shipping and repair process that could require some attention and make any customer have more confidence in either the supplier or the OEM (or both). Any company strives for repeat business and how is that accomplished, by instilling confidence in all aspects of the process (ordering, buying and followup).

Don't get me wrong, I love the machine. It's lost some of it's luster from a personal perspective because of what I went through to get it repaired, but from a performance perspective, it's an outstanding machine and that shouldn't be lost in the translation from the dialog we have on this thread.


To XoticPC - One thing that I should point out. When you say that you want to handle the RMA process for ASUS customers, some steps on your end will have to change. Especially if you want customized units to be reassembled as per the modifications conducted on the machine.
You need to alter the text on your service web page. Currently it states that all ASUS customers are to contact ASUS for repair issues. While the page does state that customized units should contact XoticPC for repair. However, as we've learned in this discussion all of that is not very clear. I would suggest that if XoticPC wants to handle the RMA and/or repair process for ASUS units, then the text needs to be adjusted that ALL service inquires go through XoticPC first to determine best course of action for the customer.
Educate your repair center. As in my case, while XoticPC would prefer to handle all of the RMA's for ASUS units, the repair technician I spoke with didn't take that stance and instructed me to contact ASUS directly
As with any company that is growing at fast pace (ASUS and XoticPC), there are growing pains to be expected. It's the companies that recognize, understand and address those issues that end up standing out from the rest of the industry. Those who choose to ignore the problems or choose not to address them will fall behind and one day cease to exist.

Again, this is just dialog and I just ask that everyone keep it positive, as several posters have done so far. Personal insults/attacks never accomplishes the main goal and just clouds the issue.

As powerpack said before, "some will bail because the grass is greener". Green is just a perspective on how to perceive events or in this case, the overall process. People will formulate their own "grass is green" view mainly based on personal opinion, rarely based on facts. My goal was to present some observations through the whole process, recommend changes and see where XoticPC wants to take it.

I shouldn't be perceived as disgruntled, upset or disenfranchised... :)

Thanks,

Mike Raffa - JerseyReef

[Joseph@XoticPC]

Mike,

Thank you again for your constructive reply. We do appreciate it when customers nicely point out areas that could be improved upon or made better. As you say companies that do not listen to customers for possible improvements that could be made are the ones that are going to fail. The rapid pace of growth that we have seen lately is causing some growing pains as you mention and we are doing our best to reconcile those pains as quickly as possible.

All laptops that currently ship from Xoticpc ship with instructions on what to do should they have problems with the laptop. These instructions are put inside of every single box that ships from Xoticpc, custom or not. We want all of our customers to contact us to create RMA's and to discuss problems or questions first. If someone wants to call tech support at Asus that is great, but we would suggest when it gets to the point where an RMA is going to be created we would like them to stop and contact us. We can set up the same RMA, but with priority service at the appropriate service center. Obtaining RMA status is also much easier as you do not have to sit on the phone with Asus to hear the same status every day. Nor will you have to hear canned ETA responses. We have access to the technicians actually doing the repairs and can gain much more information than what can be achieved through a phone call at a call center.


Again thank you for your feedback Mike. We really do appreciate it.

[singleshot71]

To the KIDS reading this....From what I've been able to tell, ASUS/XOTIC pc has NEVER seen a demand for one computer. I would say due to DELL pricing themselves out of the normal users price range. They did not expect the long wait times ( I waited 3 months to get mine in) or the short supply of parts for this machine. the perfect storm happened, that made ASUS and all their venders look like NOOBS in the business. That is not the case, XOTIC PC is a small business doing a huge amount of inventory all the sudden. Any and all dealings I've had with them, I have walked away feeling satisfied with their response. If they would start selling gaming desktops, I would buy one from them as well. But, I can't imagine they (XOTIC) would ever want the extra headache of building machines from scratch. Good luck guys, look forward to buying my next lappy from you guys as well. BTW, were can I get a catalog for laptop parts. GPU and the like.

[powerpack]

Isn't the Internet great? I reread the OP and the thread again.I do think it got a little off topic from OP's intent. I guess that is both the strength and weakness of this kind of open exchange of ideas.

I can't remember if I read Mike's post prior to boats 1st comment on the thread. I likely did as I spend lots of time here. I can say the original post was thoughtful direct and detailed. Had very specific suggestions. It is the kind of post I typically don't post on at first. I don't because I found nothing to challenge on Mikes 1st post. I thought Xotic should be the ones consider and understand. I also understand if they don't want to discuss all his suggestions in an open format. Xotic not wanting to discuss in an open format takes nothing away from Mike's first post, it might even be because it does have credibility.

So as much as some might question I do not want to be an Xotic fanboy I want to be a fan for what they do well. It was the 1st two posts after Mike's and not in a timely manner that got me a little offended. Mike had not posted back so thought maybe resolved or Mike was satisfied.

Well there where new issues and as Mike's 1st post, his follow up ones were thoughtful and full of valuable insights. I think Mike's posts might help Xotic as such I feel no reason to agree with Mike at 1st as his post spoke for itself or disagree and defend Xotic. I did not see a major conflict. Just honest thoughtful mature insights and suggestions.

I apologize if I got over the top to some of the posters. But I said what I feel. I did not think thread was started as a "don't buy" Xotic. When it became that I responded.

I support Mike and all his thoughts I support Xotic and how they run their company. The world is not black and white, it is gray some where in the middle is likely the best answer. Not that doing everything Mike said might not be a good idea but I don't work at Xotic so don't know the issues.

Xotic is the best notebook seller! Yes there are a few others also but you will not do better. There that was my fanboy sentence. I feel better.

For Mike if he paid for TC upgrade and MoBo was replaced it seems Asus would possibly not do that on replacement. As such I think if he sends it to Xotic, shipping covered he does deserve TC upgrade on new MoBo. In the future in that situation unless the upgrade can be done by Asus it should be shipped to Xotic to be done before return. It really should be done by Asus as system is open and delay to return to customer is not ideal. Can that be worked out? I have no idea.

Mike with out me going back and rereading you mention you thought GPU they said MoBo and you thought whatever go with the experts? You might of still been correct but GPU on that model is a MoBo swap. Just thought I would throw that in for the kids.

Good luck to all and best wishes.