Hybrid HDDs

[JBossch]

Does anybody have any experience with hybrid HDDs? I am specifically interested in the one offered as an option on the new Sager NP81xxs:

500GB (w/ 4GB SSD Memory) Seagate XT 7200RPM NCQ Hybrid (Serial-ATA II 300 - 32MB Cache)

My understanding is that an SSD can really improve performance above a standard hard drive, but my budget prohibits going with a large SSD or a two-drive setup.

Thanks!

[Keeper]

Does anybody have any experience with hybrid HDDs? I am specifically interested in the one offered as an option on the new Sager NP81xxs:

500GB (w/ 4GB SSD Memory) Seagate XT 7200RPM NCQ Hybrid (Serial-ATA II 300 - 32MB Cache)

My understanding is that an SSD can really improve performance above a standard hard drive, but my budget prohibits going with a large SSD or a two-drive setup.

Thanks!

JB, I can only speculate and tell you what a few friends of mine have experienced. They said there was a larger performance increase over time with these drives (when they get used to knowing which programs you use most often) they really do help with performance. At this point that is pretty much all I know. Smog has a pretty decent grasp on drives and what not, and will likely be able to give you more feedback.

[JBossch]

Thanks Keeper. I came across this video in my research and it was totally eye-opening:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kss98VdhSj0&feature=player_embedded

That's pretty incredible (though I imagine they wore in the hybrid drive to play to its strengths and let it adapt to usage)

On the Sager NP8130 the upgrade from the base 500GB HDD to the 500GB + 4GB SSD Hybrid is only $75. If the performance boost is that good, how can I not upgrade?

I am interested to know if anyone has used one of these and whether it lives up to the video.

[SmogHog]

Does anybody have any experience with hybrid HDDs? I am specifically interested in the one offered as an option on the new Sager NP81xxs:

500GB (w/ 4GB SSD Memory) Seagate XT 7200RPM NCQ Hybrid (Serial-ATA II 300 - 32MB Cache)

My understanding is that an SSD can really improve performance above a standard hard drive, but my budget prohibits going with a large SSD or a two-drive setup.

Thanks!

My favorite notebook HDDs are the WD Scorpio Black.In some applications the Seagate Momentus XT can yield better performance but in most other instances they perform on the same level.How much is because of the included flash memory I don't know.

The only thing I'm concerned with is not using a new chipset's SATA III ability if you're investing in the Huron River platform with a new Sandy Bridge processor.

IMO a SATA III SSD is the best upgrade for a primary drive to think about.If it's not offered,order with HDDs and upgrade yourself later.

No matter how good a review may say the SSH is,it's still subject to the SATA II limitations.

The Asus G73SW is shipped standard with 2 SSH drives.

If the secondary SSH drive will be used for storage then it's overkill.

You can read about the SSH drive here.
http://hothardware.com/Reviews/Seagate-Momentus-XT-Solid-State-Hybrid-Preview/

Since this article was written a 750gb model has appeared and there's a review of it in the Reviews forum.

[JBossch]

IMO a SATA III SSD is the best upgrade for a primary drive to think about.If it's not offered,order with HDDs and upgrade yourself later.

No matter how good a review may say the SSH is,it's still subject to the SATA II limitations.

Thanks, very interesting stuff. Unfortunately it looks like the new sager NP81XXs only have a couple SATAIII options for the "replace ODD bay with an HDD" setup. And they are large SSDs that I can't afford.

Even if I plan on upgrading later though, $75 seems a fair price to pay for the performance increase, no?

[Maverick494]

Thanks, very interesting stuff. Unfortunately it looks like the new sager NP81XXs only have a couple SATAIII options for the "replace ODD bay with an HDD" setup. And they are large SSDs that I can't afford.

Even if I plan on upgrading later though, $75 seems a fair price to pay for the performance increase, no?

the hybrid drives are very much worth it as a compromise between full SSD and regular drives to me.

[SmogHog]

Thanks, very interesting stuff. Unfortunately it looks like the new sager NP81XXs only have a couple SATAIII options for the "replace ODD bay with an HDD" setup. And they are large SSDs that I can't afford.

Even if I plan on upgrading later though, $75 seems a fair price to pay for the performance increase, no?

Yes!It's fair.

By the time you're ready for an SSD there will be more choices and cheaper prices due to the cheaper memory in new drives.

Maybe late in the year new generation SSDs will get to the $1 per gb price?

[simprog1700]

Hybrids?? I am just waiting long enough for the SSD's to cost as much as the good ol' platter type drives we have now.

[JBossch]

Hybrids?? I am just waiting long enough for the SSD's to cost as much as the good ol' platter type drives we have now.

Ha. And by then we will be just a few short months from a new GPU release! And when that comes out, Intel will be on the verge of unveiling a new CPU! And then...

[GabrielP]

Is there any special care needed for the SSH drives like certain settings that apply to them, do you or do you not defrag them, is there a special way to partition them for a primary drive ?

[Keeper]

Is there any special care needed for the SSH drives like certain settings that apply to them, do you or do you not defrag them, is there a special way to partition them for a primary drive ?

From everything I have been able to gather about these Hybrid drives, the answer is no. It is for all intensive purposes a cache, so there should be no real setup or maintenance other than what is normally required for HDD. One of the other folks can probably explain a little more, but everything that I have seen about these makes it seem pretty straight forward.

Unlike most standard hard drives, the hybrid drive in its normal state has its platters at rest, with the motor not consuming power or generating heat. Any data written to the hybrid drive is written to the buffer; there is no risk of data loss in the event of power failure as the buffer's flash memory is not volatile. When reading data from the platters extra data is read and stored in buffer memory (which need not be non-volatile flash memory) in the hope of anticipating future requirements as in any disk cache. Data required for the next boot-up can be stored in the non-volatile buffer before shutting down the computer.

The hybrid drive's platters will spin up to move data from the write buffer to the platters when nearly full, and to read data which is not in the cache.

So, basically you treat it like a normal HDD and the hybrid does its own thing. I could be mistaken, but this makes the most sense and goes along with what I know of them.

[Maverick494]

Ok here is the easiest way to compare these drives to something you can already do with windows 7.

If you go and get a SD card or Flash drive and you right click it. You can choose to use readyboost to speed up your system, right? All that is, is a cache for frequently accessed program and data files to reside. Eventually windows learns what those are and pre-loads them into that cache.

These hybrid drives basically take that technology and incorporate it directly into a platter hard drive so that you don't have to use an SD card to do it. On top of that it is a 32MB cache platter drive to begin with so you are a bit better than the stock 16MB cache drive.

[acheronx1]

If you are getting the Momentus XT Hybrid drive I *HIGHLY* recommend updating the firmware to 2.4... stock is 2.2.

It will fix any issues that you will start to notice (as I did and many others I've come across).

Since updating, I have no issues whatsoever, an has been running at optimal conditions. I'm totally happy that I went with the hybrid instead of a 1TB normal HDD.

[JBossch]

If you are getting the Momentus XT Hybrid drive I *HIGHLY* recommend updating the firmware to 2.4... stock is 2.2.

It will fix any issues that you will start to notice (as I did and many others I've come across).

Since updating, I have no issues whatsoever, an has been running at optimal conditions. I'm totally happy that I went with the hybrid instead of a 1TB normal HDD.

Cool. Thanks for the tip!

[Keeper]

If you are getting the Momentus XT Hybrid drive I *HIGHLY* recommend updating the firmware to 2.4... stock is 2.2.

It will fix any issues that you will start to notice (as I did and many others I've come across).

Since updating, I have no issues whatsoever, an has been running at optimal conditions. I'm totally happy that I went with the hybrid instead of a 1TB normal HDD.

What type of issues did you have using the firmware 2.2?

[acheronx1]

Various issues, mostly when gaming.

The harddrive (when it tries to load) would freeze the computer for a few seconds. It got pretty annoying, so I investigated. Took a bit to figure out what could be causing the freezing, but it turned out to be the hybrid drive.

Updated to 2.4, and all the issues went away.

[acheronx1]

Another tip, if you already know about it then this is for anyone who has a SSD and doesn't know about this, never defrag your SSD.

SSD are built different than a HDD (which defrags are good for) and a defrag will damage the SSD or reduce it's life condition.

[JBossch]

Another tip, if you already know about it then this is for anyone who has a SSD and doesn't know about this, never defrag your SSD.

SSD are built different than a HDD (which defrags are good for) and a defrag will damage the SSD or reduce it's life condition.

Does this advice apply to the hybrids at all? I figure not, since it is basically a standard mechanical HDD and the SSD component is just flash memory right?

[acheronx1]

I haven't been able to find any issues with using a defrag program on Hybrids as of yet, but I will post if I do find anything a hybrid drive user should know.

A hybrid still has the typical HDD mechanical moving parts to store the information, so it would not be damaged by a software run defrag application, theoretically.

[charlie3]

I need 500GB minimum on the next machine. An SSD would add hundreds to the cost of the system. Then I'd need a second drive which adds weight, expense and power drain. The several reviews I've read for the momentus were favorable. I want one on my next machine.

[erisalit]

[quote]Unlike most standard hard drives, the hybrid drive in its normal state has its platters at rest, with the motor not consuming power or generating heat.[quote]

Hey cool. I had not heard that. Anyone see any stats on this in terms of impact on battery life or computer temps?

Also, could someone clarify on what it means to upgrade the firmware to 2.4? Any links where to find the upgrade?

Thanks much all.

[erisalit]

fyi:

http://forums.seagate.com/t5/Momentus-XT-Momentus-and/Momentus-XT-Auto-spin-down/m-p/55294

Seems that the internal APM will cause the hybrid drive to auto spin down, which results in pauses or lack of "snappy-ness" that some users randomly experience. With Crystal Disk Info, you can disable the APM, and supposedly all is well.

[powerpack]

But then you lose the power savings correct?

[acheronx1]

erisalit (http://www.xoticpcforums.com/member.php?u=19489): Upgrading the firmware (on the Momentus XT hybrid specifically) means some of the read/write bugs were fixed, better loading and caching of information, etc.

You have two options; download an ISO, and go that route; or you can download an update application .exe, run that, and then it will automatically update the firmware for you, all you do is follow the instructions on the screen and reboot when requested.

All the instructions for the Momentus XT update can be found on the Seagate website under internal harddrives.

Hope that helps.

[erisalit]

yes I think disabling the APM would eliminate the power savings. basically I think it is an option for those noticing and annoyed by the reported pauses or lack of "snappyness" who care less about power consumption and heat than "snappyness." I haven't yet found anything quantifying the heat difference but I did see one anecdotal report of a 17 degree heat difference after swapping out for a hybrid from a 5400 rpm HDD. That is a pretty big difference if it is not uncommon. thanks acheron for the more info on the firmware update.

[wtaylor]

As I have read reviews concerning this hybrid, they recommended that, in a two drive system, that it is a waste to use it in the second drive if that is being used as a temporary backup drive. In speaking with my salesperson at xoticpc, he said the same thing. I want to use my second HD as a temporary backup before backing up on an external drive. My plan is to use the hybrid as my main drive and a nonhybrid as the second HD. Does this sound right to you others who have looked into this?

[james832001]

As I have read reviews concerning this hybrid, they recommended that, in a two drive system, that it is a waste to use it in the second drive if that is being used as a temporary backup drive. In speaking with my salesperson at xoticpc, he said the same thing. I want to use my second HD as a temporary backup before backing up on an external drive. My plan is to use the hybrid as my main drive and a nonhybrid as the second HD. Does this sound right to you others who have looked into this?

That's my setup for my new laptop. My primary hard drive is the 500GB Seagate XT 7200RPM NCQ Hybrid and my secondary is the 750GB 7200RPM (Serial-ATA II 300 - 16MB Cache).

[acheronx1]

I have a SSD 120GB for my main, and a 320GB hybrid for secondary. I went that route because it would be faster (read/write etc) than a normal HDD.

[powerpack]

Very nice bot.

[JP@XoticPC]

Hybrid hard drive combines a traditional hard disk storage on magnetic platters with a cache of courtesy flash-memory-speed. This allows frequently accessed data to remain readily available, even faster than relying on Random Access Memory (RAM). The flash memory chip is made of non-volatile memory, which means that in order to save bits of data without a power source. This is in contrast with the RAM chips, which will lose all data when power is turned off. Here are the hybrid hard drives come into their own, produce better results than traditional hard disk, but only a small fee.

I just wanted to quote this guy before I use the ban-hammer on him because I'm amazed at the level of intelligence of this guy.

[vaughanson]

Hybrid Hard Disk Drive is a kind of a big computer hard disk buffer. If differs from hard drives that combine non-volatile cache, or even using a small solid state disk. Although the cache is usually used for non-volatile flash memory.